Ep 769 - Q&A: 3 Mainstream Porn Recovery Tactics We Don't Love, Emotional Overwhelm, and Confession Boundaries with Sathiya and Shawn
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[00:00:00] So here's the million dollar question. How are men like [00:00:05] us who work hard, have good motives and a God given purpose supposed to fulfill the [00:00:10] calling on our lives and the dreams in our hearts all while establishing sexual integrity, [00:00:15] thriving relationships and a meaningful connection with God? That is the question.
[00:00:19] [00:00:20] And this podcast will give you the answers. My name is Sathya Sam. Welcome to Unleash the Man [00:00:25] Within. [00:00:30] Welcome
[00:00:33] back to Unleash the Man [00:00:35] Within. Uh, we're donning a new segment here. We're Couple episodes in and I got my [00:00:40] man, Sean Bonnetto join in here today. Sean, welcome back. Yeah. Great to be here, [00:00:45] man. Yeah. Uh, it was fun, fun doing the first round and, uh, I was in, I [00:00:50] was in Jamaica still when we did the last round.
[00:00:53] Nice to be back in Canada. [00:00:55] Um, Sean, what's, uh, what's new and exciting in your world, man? New and [00:01:00] exciting. Well, what's new is, uh, I'm sitting down today cause I got a [00:01:05] sore knee. So figuring that all out right now, but what's exciting, man, what [00:01:10] happened with your knee again? Ah, I don't, I still haven't been able to go get a definite answer.
[00:01:14] [00:01:15] So waiting for that, but, uh, we'll see. We'll see if that's getting better in the next month or so, [00:01:20] but what's exciting, man. Yeah. Sorry about what were you playing sports or I forget. No, I [00:01:25] was pushing Violet on the swing and I turned to like run ahead of it really [00:01:30] quickly. So she could kick me in the butt and, uh, didn't, didn't end so well.
[00:01:34] I just, I felt this like [00:01:35] sharp pain in my knee, which I've never felt before. So I was like, of course, right? Like, [00:01:40] oh man, once you're a dad of two and you're apparently when you, when you go over 30 or so, you start breaking [00:01:45] down and I don't buy into that, but Hey, I guess happening. I don't know what to say.
[00:01:48] Yeah, I know. [00:01:50] I know, man. It's honestly, it's a thing. It's so frustrating to you. Cause I mean, I'm [00:01:55] 33 and yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm again, I'm in like relatively good shape, but I'm still very aware that [00:02:00] like, yeah, my body like clicks and cracks when I do certain things. And yeah. Yeah. [00:02:05] What's exciting though, man, uh, Helena turned 28 the other last weekend [00:02:10] and she just got a really cool word from the Lord that, uh, has been just, [00:02:15] Exactly what she needed in this season with everything we've gone through with changes and everything's that's really [00:02:20] brought a comfort to my soul as husband and leader of our family.
[00:02:23] So praise him. God for [00:02:25] that. Yeah, that's cool, man. Yeah, I know. We've been, we don't have to get into the details, but you and [00:02:30] I've been talking separately about it. It's, um, it's fun to like, I mean, [00:02:35] fun's probably not the right word, but I, you know, I really like get joy out of seeing lies get exposed and, [00:02:40] you know, walking in that truth.
[00:02:41] It's really powerful. And I think one thing that [00:02:45] sometimes people forget is, you know, you and I are doing this just as much as anybody else is. [00:02:50] Um, and granted there's a lot of sobriety, a lot of freedom between the two of us. Um, [00:02:55] you know, whatever it is. 15 plus years. Yeah, yeah. But, um, but you [00:03:00] know, I mean, whether it's us or our wives or whatever, there's, there's still lots of work to be done.
[00:03:04] Um, yeah. Yeah. [00:03:05] Sean, how much have you traveled with your kids? 'cause I, I guess obviously you moved overseas, well, [00:03:10] you haven't traveled at all with Lydia, I'm guessing, but Yeah, not with Lydia. Did you come up with Violet? Yeah. So Violet, [00:03:15] we flew to, uh, British Columbia for. [00:03:20] Christmas and on route to British Columbia.
[00:03:22] We got stuck in Calgary for three days because of all the winter storms in [00:03:25] Canada that one Christmas. So that was, uh, she was about 18 months when that happened. [00:03:30] So we were, yeah, it was very interesting. 18 months is a very challenging time [00:03:35] of a moving child. And then we flew to the Czech Republic as [00:03:40] well for six weeks when Viola was five months.
[00:03:42] So yeah, she was, she's quite the traveler. Yeah. [00:03:45] That's impressive, man. Yeah. We just did this crazy round of traveling. Like we came back from Jamaica [00:03:50] and then we were, we were here in Canada for like six days and then we got back [00:03:55] on a plane. We actually went to Calgary first and then Edmonton. I spoke at an event.
[00:03:59] Yeah. [00:04:00] And um, It's just crazy. I was like feeling a little bit jealous of my own kid. Cause I [00:04:05] didn't get on a plane until I was 12 years old. I think that was my first time flying. And, uh, and I'm like, [00:04:10] man, this, this guy's kind of got it made. Um, but then, yeah, I mean, he's not as active [00:04:15] as like an 18 year old.
[00:04:15] So that was nice or 18 month old, right? Yeah. Um, so that was nice, [00:04:20] but, uh, it's still kind of crazy. And then like his sleep schedule got all thrown off. Cause we went, [00:04:25] we went back to our, so Alberta. And then the day that we came back [00:04:30] home, well, and yeah, we were only in Alberta, just, just long enough for him to get used to it.
[00:04:33] And then we get back [00:04:35] on a plane and we go back two hours forward. And then it was daylight savings that day. So [00:04:40] we went forward three hours. So like this poor kid doesn't know what's what, but I mean, he's actually done great, [00:04:45] but it's just like, I don't know. I, I, I'm still wrapping my head around just how much more complicated your [00:04:50] life is once you have a baby, you know, it's crazy.
[00:04:52] There's so many beauties and so many [00:04:55] challenges. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of crazy. So Shaloma and I [00:05:00] are getting ready to, to start doing some, some sleep training. So [00:05:05] pray for us if you're listening, we're both like, we're, we're doing it very excitedly and [00:05:10] equally afraid. Um, and I had no idea cause I, [00:05:15] the environment that I grew up in or not grew up in, but like in my twenties, the people that I [00:05:20] was surrounded by all did sleep training and they followed a book called baby wise, [00:05:25] um, which is.
[00:05:26] A very medical and I would say a little bit more [00:05:30] mechanical approach to, uh, to sleep training, but they all raved about it and they loved it. And so we [00:05:35] started, uh, reading or listening to Babywise. We didn't love it, um, especially because we [00:05:40] felt like it kind of ignored the attachment part of child rearing.
[00:05:43] It's like the Gerber method or [00:05:45] something. I'm not familiar with Gerber method, but it's probably the same thing. It's just very [00:05:50] clinical. It's like, yeah, the baby feeds every three hours. You can do whatever you want them to [00:05:55] do. And, you know, um, obviously that's like, that really is the premise of sleep [00:06:00] training, but it just like, there was just not, when we looked at like, How [00:06:05] frequently they were having the parents come in and stuff like that.
[00:06:07] It would, it just felt very cold. Yeah. So we [00:06:10] just weren't huge fans of it. Um, especially, you know, with what you and I know about attachment, like you have to obviously consider those [00:06:15] things. Yeah. Um, so we found somebody that we're following, uh, that we really like. And she's, [00:06:20] um, she's very, um, she's well researched, but then very conscious [00:06:25] of attachment.
[00:06:26] Um, but still pro sleep training, but I just had no idea how many people [00:06:30] are anti sleep training and how many people think it's like child abuse and stuff like that. So we've just [00:06:35] got to some, like, we're not actually, I don't know what, I mean, I guess by the time this episode comes out, we'll probably already passed it, which [00:06:40] is fine because we're actually not telling a lot of people that we're sleeping for that reason now, because we're [00:06:45] like, well, you know, just too many intense conversations and being accused of being child abusers over [00:06:50] it.
[00:06:50] So did you guys sleep train? Did you sleep? Yeah, we did, man. Yeah. There's a, there's a great company out [00:06:55] of Australia called little ones. That was tremendously helpful and very much like, yeah, the, [00:07:00] the, the therapeutic approach to it with looking at attachment and the psychology [00:07:05] rather than just, you know, treating them like a robot.
[00:07:07] So I could, you know, I could see where people have [00:07:10] a decent argument, but the word sleep training, like we talked about at one point, like, you know, gentle [00:07:15] parenting is just. Just language, it doesn't really make sense to people anymore. There's different meanings for [00:07:20] it. And, but it, it, uh, it was a huge catalyst to, yeah, to [00:07:25] what we believe leading our child into a forming a sleep habit.
[00:07:29] [00:07:30] Yeah. Yeah. And it's, you know, I think the, the person we're following, her name's Kara. She's very popular on [00:07:35] Instagram, taking care of babies. Um, that's good. And. Yeah, her whole thing [00:07:40] is like sleep is a skill and like any skill, [00:07:45] you know, a child's not going to naturally learn it. You have to teach it to them and [00:07:50] teaching them the skill of sleeping is very difficult because no [00:07:55] kid actually wants to sleep and it can be really frustrating when you're, you know, the first [00:08:00] Judah's just over five months.
[00:08:01] So, you know, he's, he's able to like fall asleep on his own. We can put him in the [00:08:05] crib sometimes. He's definitely gotten used to like being rocked to sleep and that kind of stuff. So [00:08:10] it'd be a big adjustment for him, you know, and, uh, yeah, it just, it's just, it's [00:08:15] just, uh, it's going to be interesting. So we'll see what happens.
[00:08:18] Yeah. And it's such a, it's like, [00:08:20] I'm constantly having these sorts of conversations with my clients of like, Regulating your [00:08:25] emotions is a skill that you were never taught, and you're relying on your parents when you're young to do that, and if they [00:08:30] never taught you how to do that, you need to learn it at some point, and the only option is compassion that you never [00:08:35] learned it, so yeah, it's such a parallel to so many of the conversations I have daily with guys about [00:08:40] their attachment and what they decided to latch onto for comfort, which wasn't [00:08:45] actually healthy, but it Did the trick when they were young, but now it's an addiction.
[00:08:48] So yeah, it's such a [00:08:50] parallel. Yeah. It's really interesting. Shalom and I have been talking a little bit lately about [00:08:55] co regulation because, um, she is a big co regulator. [00:09:00] Like when she's stressed, she wants, she wants to talk to me. She wants to process it. Yeah. [00:09:05] And I'm actually like, I mean, again, I have a value for co regulating.
[00:09:08] I don't want to sound cold or [00:09:10] harsh about it. But generally, like the way I learned to cope growing up was I just figured it out on my [00:09:15] own. So, like, I've almost had to learn to co regulate, whereas I think, you know, Shalom is probably a little bit more [00:09:20] on the other side of, like, having to scale that back a bit and learning to do it on her own.
[00:09:24] Um, [00:09:25] so it's, I mean, I got, I'm basically describing like anxious attachment verse, um, avoid an [00:09:30] attachment, right? It's kind of the same dynamic, but yeah, I've, I've just never [00:09:35] thought about it more now with Judah. Cause it's, it's like, yeah, even like even Shalom and I [00:09:40] are just, it affects our parenting philosophy.
[00:09:41] Cause there's certain things where I'm like, ah, he'll figure it out. You know, like he's, [00:09:45] he's like trying to grab his toy and I don't mind seeing him struggle. Cause I want him to learn how to grab his toy. [00:09:50] And Shlomo wants to just, you know, take it and put it right in his hand. And, you know, it's like, it just, it's just funny how it manifests in [00:09:55] little ways.
[00:09:55] Like attachment is just. Yeah. It's everywhere, you know? Yeah. Yeah. [00:10:00] Yeah. Lots of different perspectives. And, uh, I think so much of it does come down to how we [00:10:05] were raised. And sometimes it's a challenging thing because people want to lock on to their [00:10:10] experiences rather than the, the holistic look at spiritual, physical, [00:10:15] emotional.
[00:10:15] And that's usually where the arguments are just void of being a good [00:10:20] argument. And it's, it's a challenging thing nowadays. People get offended very easy. And [00:10:25] man, oh man. In Canada, especially friendships break up really easy. [00:10:30] Oh, dude, it's crazy. It's crazy. There was a, there was a stat. [00:10:35] Um, 20, I guess it was 2023.
[00:10:38] This must've came out, but there were [00:10:40] like 5 million breakups in Canada during the pandemic. Now, granted, like, [00:10:45] obviously those are, that goes beyond just the scope of what we were discussing. But, [00:10:50] um, Canada has become very much like, like very strong cancel culture. I [00:10:55] guess. Yeah. And it's kind of wild, but I, and I, I read through it a couple of times.
[00:10:59] Cause I was like, [00:11:00] wait, was it 5 million breakups or, or 5 million people affected by breakups? [00:11:05] Yeah. But the stat there was 5 million breakups. And. That's just kind of crazy. Now, granted, you [00:11:10] probably had a bunch of serial online daters who did like one virtual date and then they broke [00:11:15] up. Right. So I'm sure there's things that are skewing the stats a bit, but, uh, but Canada is only [00:11:20] like 40 million people.
[00:11:21] So 5 million breakups is that's 25 percent of the population affected by [00:11:25] it. You know, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't imagine. Looking at you with a mask on my whole life. [00:11:30] Yeah, exactly. I don't like what I'm seeing here at the top half. [00:11:35] So I don't want to see the bottom half of that face. This is over.
[00:11:38] Yeah, it's a, it's a [00:11:40] Canadian mindset right there. And I'm Canadian. So I can joke about it. [00:11:45] So in the check, cause I know you've been to some medical facilities. Are they wearing masks in medical facilities at all? [00:11:50] So check's an interesting place. I think depending where you go, if you go to the bigger [00:11:55] cities, you're going to get more like Westernized.
[00:11:57] But we came here during COVID in [00:12:00] 2021 from Canada, having those like prison cells, you had to come [00:12:05] back to and quarantine in, and we came to the check. Flew into Prague Airport. They [00:12:10] didn't even care about our, our vaccination status. If we had, um, covid [00:12:15] testing done, we hopped on the train in Prague and the, the people who were working were [00:12:20] wearing masks, but we didn't, and they didn't say a word like we're in the.
[00:12:23] Top city [00:12:25] of the country on the train for four hours, no masks on. We just came from Canada, which is like, if [00:12:30] you fart without a mask on, you're going to jail. So [00:12:35] it was just surreal, man. Like obviously they had some different things here that we probably [00:12:40] missed, but it was just a different world. And we came in 2021.
[00:12:42] So I don't, I don't even think COVID it's a [00:12:45] conversation for people anymore. It's a, it's just a different world because of all the distrust with government [00:12:50] here. You get a lot of people saying like, Oh, that's what the government wants. And that's absolutely not what I'm doing. [00:12:55] Yeah. I love it so much. I've, I've like learned to embrace it.
[00:12:58] Cause Jamaica is the same [00:13:00] thing. Like they did. Cause there's so much corruption in these countries. Right. And I mean, There's [00:13:05] tons of corruption in Canada. Let's not kid ourselves. It's just that it's masked better. That's right. That's right. So I'm [00:13:10] not intended. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I think it's, um, you know, it's [00:13:15] kind of, it's just interesting, but I had a similar experience cause I, um, I went to [00:13:20] Texas.
[00:13:20] I'm trying to get my dates screwed on straight, but it was probably end of 2021 [00:13:25] and this is like, actually, yeah, it was end of 2021 cause we had just moved to [00:13:30] Jamaica just as Ontario had started the vaccine passport, [00:13:35] which was you needing to be vaccinated to enter like grocery stores and stuff like that [00:13:40] and not every grocery store did it.
[00:13:41] So you could still get groceries if you weren't vaccinated, but I mean, still like, give me a [00:13:45] flippin break. So anyway, so that's, that's like the environment we were coming out of. And [00:13:50] then I went to Texas and I was in a grocery store, actually. [00:13:55] Um, just, I had to pick up a couple of things before I got to my hotel.
[00:13:58] And everybody was looking at me [00:14:00] funny and like, I'm in like Austin. So I'm like, this is a big city. These guys have seen a Brown person before. [00:14:05] I couldn't figure out what was going on, you know? Um, and then I'm like, oh, I'm the only [00:14:10] person wearing a mask. Like I was just in like some like bizarro world where, you know, [00:14:15] nobody cared about that stuff.
[00:14:16] Um, so yeah, just kind of the shock, right? It's just, [00:14:20] just like two different worlds, really. Yeah. Yeah, man. That's really funny. [00:14:25] Ah, um. I'll share this really quickly because it ties in and it's a really cool like way that God [00:14:30] worked and I actually didn't share this with you yet, but I was supposed to go on a retreat [00:14:35] back in May last year, April last year.
[00:14:38] And I found out [00:14:40] 2 days before the trip that I wasn't allowed to go because I wasn't vaccinated and. You know, [00:14:45] I just didn't get vaccinated because of young, healthy guy. I'm not an anti vax or anything. I'm not making this a [00:14:50] political conversation, but, but what is interesting. That's right. [00:14:55] What is interesting though, Sophia is I wasn't able to go on that trip.
[00:14:59] And I [00:15:00] had a travel credit and that's actually how we ended up meeting for the first time. And I don't, I [00:15:05] don't know if I would be working with Deep Clean if it wasn't for that trip getting canceled and then [00:15:10] using that credit to come and see you. So very interesting to see the silver lining [00:15:15] because we, we had, we had a lot of challenges during COVID and just really sought the Lord.
[00:15:19] [00:15:20] And, uh, I was thinking about that two weeks ago, like, wow, that, Is a really cool affirmation [00:15:25] that it wasn't like, Oh, like getting vaccinated was a bad thing, but like in our, in our case, we just felt really [00:15:30] convicted that we're healthy young people and don't need it. And it was just neat to see, like, I don't know if we would be [00:15:35] doing this together today if it wasn't for that.
[00:15:37] And like, that's a big deal to me. [00:15:40] Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, yeah, it's, it's classic. Like God really does work all things [00:15:45] together for his good. And the timing of it was really significant. Cause I remember when that [00:15:50] retreat got canceled and you texted me and you're like, Hey, I want to use this credit before I moved to the check.
[00:15:54] [00:15:55] And so that was, I think at the time it was only a three or four month window. And I remember seeing that [00:16:00] text being like, Oh, I'd love to make something happen, but you know, Shalom had just gone pregnant and we kind of felt [00:16:05] like we had our hands full. Like I wasn't very. it. And then I was talking to one of my [00:16:10] business coaches at the time who was like, why aren't you doing one on one coaching?
[00:16:13] And I was like, well, you [00:16:15] know, we've, we thought about it, but it's just so much work to add it. And I have more people at the [00:16:20] minute. And he's like, no, no, no. He's like, you're thinking about this all wrong. And he kind of showed me the model and, and then like, [00:16:25] yeah, then we were off to the races and it was only, It was only probably a month later or two, maybe two months later that you were at my [00:16:30] house and I was making you ginormous omelets in the morning.
[00:16:33] And [00:16:35] we were having, we were going on long walks and chatting through, you know, coaching philosophies. Kind [00:16:40] of crazy, man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's one of the interesting things. This happened in [00:16:45] Edmonton. Um, when I was speaking at the event, but I met a bunch of people that I've [00:16:50] known online for years, like the one guy, he's, he's probably the other big player in [00:16:55] Canada for porn addiction, um, among Christians in particular.
[00:16:58] Um, and his name is Matt Klein. [00:17:00] He's been on the podcast and whatnot, but he, he wrote me an email or [00:17:05] maybe I reached out to him when I first started and he had already been doing it for like a year or two and he was like, Oh man, he's like, you're [00:17:10] gonna have a blast, like just enjoy it and whatever, whatever, um, So he was at this event [00:17:15] and, um, and he, he has a podcast that I've been on and he co hosted with a guy [00:17:20] named Braden, um, it's spelled Braden, but it's pronounced Braden.
[00:17:23] And, um, and so both these guys were [00:17:25] at the event and it's, uh, it's just fun meeting people in, uh, in person. Like, it's funny how that's [00:17:30] become like such a thing. Exciting moment in our generation, you know, it's like me, your [00:17:35] virtual friends in person, and these guys are huge too. They're like six, two, six, three big [00:17:40] Alberta boys, like looking up to them.
[00:17:41] Like, yeah, kind of crazy, but, uh, it's just fun. It was [00:17:45] really fun. Yeah. And those are those like faithful moments to say, like, [00:17:50] we've been doing this together for how many years and us meeting is just that like next [00:17:55] encouragement in the journey. So like you and I, we knew each other for four and a half, almost five years when we [00:18:00] finally connected in person and it was just like another like mile marker in the journey [00:18:05] of, of integrity.
[00:18:07] Dude, I didn't, I didn't even tell you. I completely forgot. [00:18:10] Oh, maybe I did tell you, but Andrew Thompson was at this event. Yes. Did we talk about it? Yeah. Yeah. That's a [00:18:15] legendary story that maybe we save for another time. Yeah. We'll save that for another time, but [00:18:20] yeah, it was, it was a lot of first full circle moments being at, uh, being at that event and meeting people in [00:18:25] person.
[00:18:25] And yeah, it's crazy. It's a, it's a cool world we live in and it gets me excited. Like we're, [00:18:30] you know, we're talking here about. Doing some things that are a bit more in person, um, [00:18:35] eventually, um, not nothing immediate, but I'm pretty excited because we have such a phenomenal [00:18:40] audience. Our client base is amazing.
[00:18:42] The best clients in the world. I'm convinced you [00:18:45] can't change my mind. And, uh, you know, the idea of meeting some of these guys in person and [00:18:50] just the things that God does when we are together in the same room, um, it's like, it's exciting. [00:18:55] So anyways, it's, it's fun times. Um, yeah. You got anything else you want to mention there?
[00:18:59] [00:19:00] Otherwise I'm, I'm ready to answer some questions here. I don't want to see some questions, man. I'm excited. [00:19:05] Oscar, take it away. Let's go. So the first question is [00:19:10] from John, uh, in Ontario, Canada. And his question is, uh, I've been dealing [00:19:15] with pornography addiction since I was 10 years old, and I'm now 21.
[00:19:19] I've had moments, [00:19:20] uh, weeks and months of victory over the years, but then it crashes with a binge of pornography and [00:19:25] masturbation. Four months ago, I told my elder at church and dad about my [00:19:30] struggle with porn, and it led to some very awkward yet rewarding conversations about [00:19:35] sin and God's grace. I also joined an accountability group, and six months [00:19:40] ago, I also started dating, and I love this girl.
[00:19:43] I feel terrible, [00:19:45] disgusted, and ashamed that I'm dealing with this while being in a serious relationship. [00:19:50] I am writing this and I still feel hopeless about victory over pornography, masturbation, and lust. [00:19:55] I struggle with putting porn away. I thought that having a girlfriend, having [00:20:00] accountability, and talking to trusted Christians would put me closer to victory, but I feel [00:20:05] overwhelmed.
[00:20:06] I frequently struggle with lustful thoughts about what I've viewed in the past and [00:20:10] for others around me. And in the last six months, I've viewed and acted upon porn six [00:20:15] times. There have been times of great joy, where I've felt free from the struggle, and [00:20:20] times where I question if I am a Christian and worthy of having a girlfriend.
[00:20:24] So how do I deal with [00:20:25] my struggle with pornography in my dating relationship? [00:20:30] John, thanks for the question, man. Some really good detail in there and you're from Ontario, Canada. So you [00:20:35] automatically have a good place in my heart. Um, this is a really important question you're asking. [00:20:40] I think, I think on the podcast, even we've talked about this quite a bit.
[00:20:44] In a [00:20:45] perfect world, you're clean and you're free before you enter a dating [00:20:50] relationship. I think that's the ideal, but it doesn't always work out that way. And you know, your [00:20:55] situation is a really good example. And what I, if, if a girl came up to me and [00:21:00] said, Hey, I'm interested in a guy, but he struggled with porn, you know, should I be with him?
[00:21:03] Should I not? Um, it's very [00:21:05] rare that I say, don't date the guy. Um, usually what I ask around for and try to find out [00:21:10] is, Is this guy making progress and does he understand what's required for him to get fully free? [00:21:15] And if the answer is yes to both those questions, usually it's fine to be in a [00:21:20] relationship.
[00:21:20] So if I'm reading this right, you know, you've been dealing with this for 11 years. It [00:21:25] looks like you've had moments over the years, but you were in kind of the binge purge cycle. And now [00:21:30] it's six slips in the last six months. So it sounds like you have it to about [00:21:35] monthly. So I'm seeing some pretty good signs of progress based on the information you've given us.
[00:21:39] [00:21:40] And again, that's like, that's the first thing that I want to just encourage you with is, [00:21:45] it looks like things are trending in the right direction and with the kind of unworthiness of [00:21:50] being in a relationship and all that stuff, I hope that maybe that'll give you a different perspective. I think you're actually.[00:21:55]
[00:21:55] It looks like you're dating material, man. Like, I think, I think this is okay. Um, [00:22:00] the second thing I would say is you've got the accountability group, which is great. [00:22:05] You know, you, you did some really good things to get the ball rolling. And I think your [00:22:10] progress speaks for itself. You know, you opened up to an elder, you talk to your dad, the [00:22:15] accountability group is great.
[00:22:16] What's missing in this equation based on what I can see. [00:22:20] Is a little bit more conscientiousness towards the roots, [00:22:25] um, and a bit more concentrated effort, and that's very typical of people who are able to [00:22:30] kind of push things forward, doing some of the traditional solutions, if I can put it that [00:22:35] way, those solutions are great.
[00:22:37] I think to probably get where you want to go, which is that you're [00:22:40] not watching at all, and that you're walking in integrity in your relationship with [00:22:45] this girl that you really care about. You're going to have to get a little bit more underneath the surface. [00:22:50] And, um, and I, I, I'm sure Sean will have some things to add in that arena.
[00:22:54] So I think those would [00:22:55] be the main things I would encourage you with. And then one more thing I'll add before, um, [00:23:00] Sean comments is I don't know what the conversation has been like with your girlfriend, if [00:23:05] any, but that's probably the other piece that really needs to happen here because, um, [00:23:10] Um, one of two things is going to, is going to happen.
[00:23:12] Either your girlfriend's going to hear about it and it's going to be [00:23:15] really difficult for her and it could affect whether or not she feels confident being in the [00:23:20] relationship. And that may sound like a bad thing, but I can assure you. If that's how she [00:23:25] responds, it's better. You have that conversation now, then things get more serious.
[00:23:29] It goes further down [00:23:30] the road. And then later she finds out that you were kind of holding this from her. So that's the first thing I [00:23:35] would say. The second option obviously is that she responds with a lot of grace and she [00:23:40] understands, and she says, that's totally okay. I still want to be with you, which by the way, a majority of women will [00:23:45] respond to when you choose to be honest.
[00:23:47] It's different if you get caught. And so I would say [00:23:50] if obviously if she responds that way, I think that'll help reframe your perspective as well. Either way, [00:23:55] you're doing the best thing for the relationship. So, um, so hopefully that part helps, but [00:24:00] I would say those are the three things I'm the most conscious of.
[00:24:02] Sean, what are you observing here? What would you [00:24:05] say? Yeah. So I can share from my own experience. I brought [00:24:10] porn into dating with Helena and marriage with Helena. And when you say [00:24:15] like you feel overwhelmed, I can, I can really empathize with that. John, I'll never forget [00:24:20] getting engaged to Helena. Yeah. And feeling this immense [00:24:25] pressure on my shoulders to try and quit porn, but having no idea how [00:24:30] to that, that feeling is, is actually very severe.
[00:24:33] It's very challenging. Um, [00:24:35] one of the things that Helena would continually say is that she [00:24:40] saw in me a willing spirit. So. Kind of piggybacking off of what Sophia said, like the word [00:24:45] willingness is a really important word to Helena and I, even we used to do this work together. She would [00:24:50] work with the betrayed partner or we would do couples coaching.
[00:24:53] That's a very [00:24:55] important word. It seems like you are willing. I think that's vital. [00:25:00] When you look into a relationship, there's the dynamic of two people. One of the things, if, [00:25:05] if you have told her, this could be the next step. If you haven't told her, you know, you got to tell her, go through that. And then that could be [00:25:10] the next step, but you want to get on, get to a place where you can have a level of [00:25:15] safety together.
[00:25:16] Where you feel safe to converse on the things that need to be conversed [00:25:20] on. So my wife, Helena would have women, the partner of a married man or engaged [00:25:25] or dating doesn't matter, do what is called a 24 hour policy. And basically the, the female [00:25:30] partner would create a list of usually four, five, six things that if this thing is done, [00:25:35] Um, without me knowing, I need you to tell me within 24 hours and it creates a lot of [00:25:40] safety for the partner.
[00:25:41] It's if you're edging with, you know, watching YouTube for more than two [00:25:45] hours, because I know that's a slippery slope. I want to know about that. If you are on Instagram for X [00:25:50] amount of time, or you start to go on the explore button, I want to know about that stuff. And that's really [00:25:55] important because you're getting it from her mouth to say, what does she want to know?
[00:25:58] A lot of times guys are left to assume, [00:26:00] what should I tell my girlfriend? What should I tell my wife? And they end up. Just feeling afraid and they don't actually [00:26:05] tell much at all. And then they start overthinking, like, do I have to tell her about every thought I have and everything I'm thinking? [00:26:10] And that's a, that's just not a fun place to be.
[00:26:11] That's actually very overwhelming. So in regards to where you're [00:26:15] at, I think, yeah, the next step is either to have a conversation or to deepen the [00:26:20] conversation. And then I think one of the things that I would say really important is, you know, You said [00:26:25] sometimes there's times you question if you're a Christian or worthy to have a girlfriend, [00:26:30] those are really important things where we definitely want to get to the roots of like, what would make you believe that [00:26:35] where did that form who contributed to that belief?
[00:26:38] Because when we start to question our [00:26:40] salvation, we start to question if Christ loves us, there's some glaring things to [00:26:45] look at there of who told you that? You know, when, when Adam and Eve put fig leaves on it, hid from God, [00:26:50] God's first question to them, his first words out of his mouth were. Who told you that?
[00:26:54] Where are [00:26:55] you? But then he said, who told you that? And that's a huge part of healing is who, [00:27:00] when, where, why? We've got to ask those questions. We begin to understand that the [00:27:05] struggles we're having have a beginning and we can begin to have compassion towards [00:27:10] ourself for probably a child who started to believe something that's really not true.
[00:27:14] [00:27:15] Help, help, paper, How painful and sad that is. And then we can begin to work on what would it look [00:27:20] like to speak truth into that area where lies came in, but this is actually what's true. [00:27:25] And we can, we can act from our adult, rational, mature mind rather than from an eight year [00:27:30] old or a 10 year old. So lots more to be said about that, but that would be like my, you know, one on [00:27:35] one answer to that question.
[00:27:37] Yeah. Yeah. And I'll just add, [00:27:40] John, the fact that you're asking this question really does prove your [00:27:45] salvation. So, you know, because you care, you clearly care about your walk with God, [00:27:50] you care about your faith and just the mere fact you're asking this, like, hopefully, [00:27:55] hopefully that'll eliminate some of the doubts about your Christianity.
[00:27:58] Um, you're good, man. You [00:28:00] know, we're all, we're all working on things. No one's perfect. Um, and like I said, things are [00:28:05] going in the right direction here. So yeah, that, that is like such a moot point. [00:28:10] You're, you're good on that front. Um, and the mere fact you asked about it, I think proves it. So, [00:28:15] so well done.
[00:28:15] And hopefully some of these things help a bit. Question number two [00:28:20] is from Ryder, uh, in British Columbia, Canada. I'm turning 18 very [00:28:25] soon, and I want to be completely free from sexual sin in my 18th year. My [00:28:30] progress has stagnated over the next few months, uh, not better or worse. [00:28:35] One issue I keep running into is I'm not sure how to get to the roots of my addiction.
[00:28:39] I use [00:28:40] porn maybe once or twice a week, but I couldn't say with certainty why I use it. This [00:28:45] bothers me because I want to know what the underlying lies or beliefs are, so I can take steps to [00:28:50] uproot them. Uh, what is the process of identifying and uprooting the belief system underlying my [00:28:55] usage of porn?
[00:28:56] Wow. What an impressive question. I mean, [00:29:00] geez, guys, 18 years old, um, asking something like this. So, uh, for starters, you know, [00:29:05] Ryder, well done, man. That is, uh, that is just amazing. Um, [00:29:10] getting to the roots is not, you know, I wish there was just like a [00:29:15] simple formula to follow and you could just follow it and you're good to go.
[00:29:19] It's not [00:29:20] necessarily that simple. Um, however, I can give you a question [00:29:25] that you can ask that should at least get you started. Um, and then I would [00:29:30] say usually the answers that you get from this question fall into one of three buckets, [00:29:35] which for us, they're the three pillars of our recovery process, which is cultivating self [00:29:40] awareness and that kind of emotional fitness piece.
[00:29:42] So building that understanding of your inner life. [00:29:45] Uh, transformation of the heart. And so that's where we talk about, you know, inner [00:29:50] child work, trauma work, uh, parent, child dynamics growing up, all those kinds [00:29:55] of things. And, you know, healing through those processing things that haven't been fully integrated.[00:30:00]
[00:30:00] And then the third is shifting your identity. And this is where belief [00:30:05] systems and thought life and all those things start to kind of come into play. And that's sort of the clinching piece that [00:30:10] seals the recovery process. So usually when we're talking about roots, we're talking [00:30:15] about maybe a lack of emotional awareness and a skill that needs to get built [00:30:20] there.
[00:30:20] We're talking about trauma and wounds from the past. Or we're talking about faulty [00:30:25] thinking and destructive belief systems. So those are the three broad categories. [00:30:30] Um, but usually the question I like to ask in this case, when someone's saying, you know, I, I want to get to the roots. I know [00:30:35] there's more. My, my question typically is.
[00:30:38] Uh, what is porn [00:30:40] offering you? And that usually gets the ball rolling. [00:30:45] Um, and at least kind of gives you some ideas on where you might need to start. Now, [00:30:50] given your age, um, I would say you are at a prime, prime place to really [00:30:55] get some professional help. Um, and I know that may sound a little bit almost counterintuitive cause [00:31:00] you're doing so great at such a young age already.
[00:31:02] But the one thing that people don't realize, [00:31:05] they think that, you know, you hire a coach, you do a program like ours. Or you go see [00:31:10] a therapist because you want to fix the problem. But the [00:31:15] real value of this journey, in my opinion, is the character and the [00:31:20] skill development that takes place. Because this is, this is why Sean and I are so [00:31:25] passionate about inner child work is because, you know, It's one of those modalities that we can [00:31:30] teach our clients how to do it, and then they can do it the rest of their lives.
[00:31:33] So we're not just giving them an [00:31:35] experience. We're giving them a skill that lasts well beyond their relationship with us because we don't, we don't want to [00:31:40] want to work with our clients forever, right? We actually want to work with our clients relatively quickly so that they don't need us anymore. [00:31:45] And so I would encourage you, like, this is actually a great opportunity.
[00:31:48] Not just for you to get this [00:31:50] problem dealt with so that you can enjoy your adult life a clean, man. That's certainly priority number one, but [00:31:55] the way you want to do it is actually by building the skills. And cultivating the character [00:32:00] that's necessary to sustain that all along, not just to get free and to say, I did it, but to [00:32:05] actually sustain it so that when you're 98 years old and you're on your deathbed, you're still walking in that [00:32:10] freedom because you had these skills and you had that character.
[00:32:12] So that, I think that that would be [00:32:15] the best move you could do at this point. Um, but I don't know, I don't know, Sean, is there other things that he can maybe do [00:32:20] to start tackling the roots on his own? Yeah, well, Ryder, I'm from, uh, Maple [00:32:25] Ridge, British Columbia near Vancouver. When I moved to Halifax, I was living in Coquitlam's.
[00:32:29] I don't know where [00:32:30] you're at, but it's always good to, uh, you know, Sophia likes the Ontario [00:32:35] guys. It's good to see some from BC. So that's cool. Um, I, I, I'm going to say something that's a little bit, [00:32:40] More unique. Usually when I ask guys this question, it's a bit awkward, but it's [00:32:45] very important. It's what themes of pornography are attractive to [00:32:50] you.
[00:32:50] That's going to give so much insight into the longings of your [00:32:55] heart. The beliefs you have about yourself and other people. So for example, Jay [00:33:00] stringer, one of my favorite books unwanted, he did research on like 3000 people on [00:33:05] the types of porn they watch, the struggle they have in their life, utility, deprivation, [00:33:10] et cetera.
[00:33:10] And there was two main findings that, uh, I usually talk about [00:33:15] solely and then they can branch out further, but. The two main themes you see a lot is, um, an older [00:33:20] woman pursuing a younger man. Typically there's a longing to be pursued, a longing [00:33:25] to be seen, a longing to be wanted and special. Um, that's, I think Cythia, [00:33:30] you had a podcast recently about how that, you know, M I L F pornography is the, one of the top [00:33:35] searches and it's because we're all longing for that a lot.
[00:33:38] And then there's this other [00:33:40] side where. Um, usually there's a, uh, aggressive or dominant man with a [00:33:45] petite younger woman. So you kind of see these parallels where, uh, if you come from a home that's [00:33:50] disengaged, where maybe it was emotion, you know, unemotional or there was dismissiveness [00:33:55] neglect, you're going to long for.
[00:33:57] That pursuit of someone who's an [00:34:00] authority to see you and want you. If you grew up in a household that was rigid and strict and rules [00:34:05] based, it's likely that you're going to grow up and have a sense that you want to kind of dominate other people. [00:34:10] Maybe like in, in real life, you're not going to, but in the fantasy world, that that's usually what [00:34:15] happens is we live out these ideals of didn't happen to us.[00:34:20]
[00:34:20] We get it in our fantasy or what did happen to us. We reverse it in our fantasy. So [00:34:25] if you want to learn a lot about like. The lies behind entitlement, um, [00:34:30] fear, failure, you know, shame, things like that. I think actually looking at the types of porn [00:34:35] you're watching would give you a lot of insight and like, man, yeah, at 18 years [00:34:40] old, there's such an incredible opportunity to really have [00:34:45] a freedom that.
[00:34:46] Man, you can enter your twenties free. That's not a common [00:34:50] theme. You can have any, you know, 18 years at freedom. That's incredible. So really [00:34:55] excited for you, Ryder. Um, and, and, and I really hope that you can explore those themes and [00:35:00] storylines in what is arousing to you. There's no shame in it. It's arousing because [00:35:05] it's telling you something about the longing of your heart.
[00:35:08] Yeah. Yeah. [00:35:10] And if, uh, if the, the content you're watching, you're having a hard time [00:35:15] Identifying themes. Sean kind of alluded to it, but I want to highlight it. You can also pay attention to your [00:35:20] fantasies. Where do your fantasies go? Um, because again, like we tend to [00:35:25] use our imagination to compensate for our unmet needs.
[00:35:28] And so that's another [00:35:30] kind of hack there to, to figure out what's going on and hopefully gives you some more data. [00:35:35] So, uh, thank you guys so much for listening again. If you have questions [00:35:40] yourself, you can submit those using the link below. Uh, in the meantime, please share [00:35:45] this content with anyone that you think might value from it.
[00:35:47] God bless you guys. We'll talk soon. [00:35:50] Hey man, it's the Thea again. I want to let you know really quick. About a resource that I [00:35:55] made just for listeners of this podcast. It's called the last relapse. It's actually a [00:36:00] book that details my entire recovery process all the way from the beginning to the very end.[00:36:05]
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