Ep 773 - Q&A: Fasting Breakthroughs, Marriage and Porn, Asexuality, and Complicated Sex with Sathiya and Shawn
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Sathiya Sam: [00:00:00] So here's the million dollar question. How are men like us who work hard, have good motives and a God given purpose supposed to fulfill the calling on our lives and the dreams in our hearts, all while establishing sexual integrity, thriving relationships and a meaningful connection with God. That is the question.
And this podcast will give you the answers. My name is Sathya Sam. Welcome to Unleash The Man Within.
Hey, hey, what's up my man? It's Sathya Sam here. Welcome to Unleash The Man Within. Thank you guys so much for listening. Welcome We are doing another round of Q and a, and man, we got some really good ones today. I'm excited to dive in. Uh, but, uh, you're gonna hear a little bit from Sean and I first, uh, we have some, we have some actually cool things that we want to share with you guys.
Um, Sean. Man. Yeah. It's great to be here, man. Yeah. Excited to, to talk about that today, man. It's gonna be great to share some personal stuff and what's been going on with clients and deep clean. It's [00:01:00] always great to bring, uh, some deeper encouragement to guys, not just us, you know? Yeah. Guys who've been around the block sometimes.
It's just so cool to share some, some breakthroughs guys we're having. Yeah. Yeah. Um, when I started the business. You know, however many years ago, five and a half years ago, you know, uh, and Sean, you know, this as well. You had your own practice for many years. You're really just trying to survive, right?
You're really just trying to get things off the ground, get a little bit of momentum and obviously like the focus is always about client results, but the honest truth as a beginner entrepreneur is that's not your only focus because you have to think about. Taxes and making payroll and software and systems and Google Docs and, you know, all that kind of stuff and marketing.
And, um, anyway, I, I would say like about a year, a year ago, year and a half ago is where the team was built up enough. And there were enough systems that I could actually really like, Pay attention to our clients with more, more detail. And, um, [00:02:00] that's really shifted things for our company. Like the outcomes have been a lot better and, you know, we have like a slack channel that's now just packed with client wins and, um, you know, from the coaches, from you and Matt, but then.
We also even get tons of feedback from Instagram, you know, people that have been really blessed by our posts and stuff. It's really fun. Um, and lots of emails to lots of people that are like, Hey, you know, I've been reading for a while or I read your book and here's what happened. So it's all really fun.
It's really cool. Um, and I'm always hesitant to share them. Um, we were just talking about this before we hit record. Cause I don't, Um, you know, I'm not big on self promotion, which people might be surprised by when you have, you know, a hundred thousand followers on Instagram and a, uh, big podcast that's growing.
But the honest truth is like, I hate marketing. I just do it. Cause I know I have to get the message out. Cause God's doing stuff here. And, you know, we would be fools to keep quiet about it. So anyway, um, Sean and I, what we wanted to share in this episode, long prequel here, guys, but, uh, we wanted to just share a little bit about what God is up to in our community.
Um, and give you some ideas about the [00:03:00] questions our clients are asking, because that's actually been the whole basis of this podcast, especially the solo cast that I've done for many years now is we figure if our clients are asking them, our listeners probably are too. And so we just wanted to translate some of that wisdom here on a broader scale.
And Sean is the one who really does, uh, the coaching and, um, and kind of leads our coaching department. And so I still have touch points with our clients. Um, but, uh, there's not enough of me to go around. And so, uh, Sean and Matt, uh, really help us facilitate that client experience. Um, so Sean, you were sharing some interesting things on the spiritual side about, you know, what clients have been asking lately, what they're looking for in recovery.
Um, yeah, give us a little bit of insight, man. Like what kind of questions are people asking and. How are you guiding them through these subjects? Yeah. Yeah. It's been really neat. So in our group calls weekly, we do 30 minutes of breakouts and then we do 20 minutes of live Q and a with coach. So, uh, one of the topics that's just been continually coming up has actually been fasting [00:04:00] and it's just been from, I, I've openly talked about fasting quite a lot on my journey, but it's just really been.
This deeper hunger people I think are seeing, uh, obviously we are leading by example. I think Matt and I and yourself and the deep clean team, we're always trying our best to live by example. And, uh, all we have is the Lord and the thing that we focus on the most is that intimacy with him. So it's been so cool to see guys like hungry to fast for the first time, to understand how to.
Get past that roadblock they had when they tried to fast last time. We just had some incredible conversations so much so that, uh, I guess it was two weeks ago. Uh, one of the guys that was in the group call, he ended up fasting the next day for three days, first time ever fasting. And he said he had breakthroughs with the Lord that he's never had before.
And it wasn't like, it wasn't breakthroughs of like, This is what you're going to do. And this became very obvious. It was actually breakthroughs of the areas of his heart that still weren't surrendered to the Lord. It was [00:05:00] very, very clear to him for the first time that there's parts of him that still don't trust God, and it actually led him deeper into inner child work and let him deeper into the parts therapy to bring those parts of the Lord and say, my upbringing was rigid in the church.
It was boring to see people's lives in this church that I grew up in and Lord, I'm sorry, like. I still believe that that's true. And I intellectually know it's not, but there's a part of me that still does. And I, and I want to bring that to you. And it was, it's just, that's, what's been happening. People are having these revelations through fasting or seeing their inner child at eight years old at, at the church, they grew up in rigid iron fist rules based and how, you know, The gospel isn't penetrating that younger part of themselves.
And fasting has been just these, you know, you're, you're shedding off. A lot of the things you've just do every day. And you know, when we eat all day, every day, we think about food, we make food, we eat food is a lot of time and energy. So I've just been seeing guys like. Slow down their lives to a place where [00:06:00] they're, they're, they're feeling the, the nudge of the spirit in a place.
They've never felt it before, and it's just been really touching for me, man, because fasting has been a big part of on a nice journey. You know, we've done like week long, 12 day long fast, like Helena's gone even longer than that. And it's just been breakthroughs that we've had as we've moved across the world to do God's work.
Fasting has been a. Pivotal part of that. So when I get to share that with guys and they can see my joy, not my, like, my like sluggish face about it. I'm like, they're like, what, what did I, what do I not know about fasting that you know, Sean? And it's just been so cool. That's amazing. I love it. I didn't, I didn't realize so many guys have been asking about fasting lately.
Cause, um, I would say of all the spiritual disciplines that we talk about, especially in Western society, fasting is like bottom of the list, man. Like depriving yourself of food is like a cardinal sin, you know? Um, cause we're such a like food driven society here. So it's, um, it's [00:07:00] really cool. And I, I know for me, fasting is near and dear to my heart.
Like I. I fasted for 24 hours a week probably since I think it was 2016. I started so that's like eight years. Yeah Um, and i've just kind of quietly done it. I have talked about it before here and there But I love it and there there are certain things that come from fasting That you just don't get from reading the bible or praying Worshiping.
Yeah, all those things obviously have their own uniqueness as well in your faith life and growth with god But fasting is really powerful You Uh, this guy who did the three day fast, did he do, was that a water fast or what was he? Yeah, it was a water fast for him. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. Good for him. Um, what, what's been your experience like with fasting?
Like when, when was last time you and Helena fasted and what did it look like? Yeah. It's been hard with Helena. Cause obviously having a baby and breastfeeding and everything, you would know, right? You can't fast. So, um, she, she's wrestled with that, but I did a fast about a week and a half ago for two and a half [00:08:00] days.
And This was crazy, man. So. You know, we're, we're kind of in this discernment of where are we going to land and where are we going to live in check? You know, it's been a conversation among, you know, more close people. I won't go into any details, but Uh, we hon and I went to a prophetic word night last october in halifax that the church we were going to uh, they brought in, um One of the pastors from the mother church of the church plant And he brought four people that are gifted in prophecy with him Never met anybody in the room.
These four people are sitting behind him, all these speaking of a prophecy. And then, you know, after an hour, they just opened up about what they were sensing from the Lord. And I had two different people speak like really specific words into me about like, you know, I, I don't know who you are, but maybe you're a business owner.
You're a coach of some sort, like just so specific, but one of them that really stood out that just Blew my mind as I went back to it last week when I was fasting is, um, one of the girls said that I see you, um, people [00:09:00] of rough soil are coming up to you and they're, they're leaving transformed, like flowers are blooming.
And we look at the work we do and it's like, yeah, like rough soil, that's addiction. That's that's people that don't 1 percent evangelical Christian, but get this. The area we live in right now is famous for poverish, rough soil for crops, like, wow, it's so crazy, man. Like this was a year, this was like a year and a half ago and I'm fasting, seeking the Lord for where we're supposed to live.
And then I remember this word and now it hits me different than ever before. I'm like, yeah, I don't, he's fasting, man. They break the breakthroughs you get when you fast. That's crazy. That's crazy. Man, I don't know what to say to that. It's unbelievable. That's so cool. Yeah, it's so cool. And it um, This is like another really good lesson here actually on spiritual growth, which is the value of documentation So you and I are both pretty big on journaling [00:10:00] I think i'm especially like a little bit probably a little bit overboard on how much I love journaling but this is one of those reasons is um is because you actually have written a record of what god has spoken Or things that you were going through So And like I remember, um, like I, I just had an opportunity land in my lap, uh, earlier this week.
I, I, I can't share here yet, but I will, but, um, God, I was actually, I was thumbing through my journal the other day. Cause I'm like, wait a minute, God told me this was going to happen. I just, I kind of forgot. And he gave me some specific instructions to follow. And I was thumbing through my journal and it was like back in October or November, you know, and he was telling me, he told me about, and I was like, no way, no way this is exactly how he, how he laid it out.
And he told me how he wants me to respond and how to handle it. And, um, and again, like, I, I don't know, maybe I would have been able to recall it. But the fact that it was written, it's dated, you know, I can see like what I was going through on that day when God spoke to me, [00:11:00] like, it's just so cool. So there's, there's something to be said about that as well.
And the one, this is like always my big, like thing with journaling, sorry, I brought up journaling and now I'm going to get on my journaling soapbox. It is what it is. Um, but you know, think about what the Bible is like, aren't we so glad that a bunch of dudes had written record of, uh, again, it's not all historical events.
But nonetheless, it's documentation of people's journeys with God, historical, poetic or prophetic or otherwise. And I'm just, I'm just like, so grateful, obviously for the word of God, because there's a bunch of incredible men who decided to take note and make record of it. And a bunch of guys who came together and decided on what the canon was and, um, gave us the Bible we have today.
Um, and I, I just feel like, man, we should be doing the same, you know, and not that we need to add to the Canon, the Bible's good. It doesn't need our touch, but you know, building that personal relationship with God and that history is, is super, super powerful. So [00:12:00] anyways, there's my, uh, my not so covert plug for journaling.
Well, Hey man, I'm, I'm at about 190 days straight journaling. I'd committed to it a daily sign in September. You're ahead of me then. Yeah, I was watching, I was watching Jordan Peterson on the Daily Wire and he said that We learn to think by writing and when we write we think better, which means we make less stupid decisions.
It's just like it's so smart. The last six months. Yeah, it's so great. Yeah, that's all. I'm just so witty now. Oh, man. But, um, yeah, just on that. I'll, I'll share this really quick because it's wild and it ties into another big topic guys are asking about. Um, um, I had a really vivid dream, um, that when I was in driver driving school here in Czech that the teacher like he didn't speak any English.
So everything we had to communicate with through Google Translate, um, this was like at the tail end of the lessons where I was about to take the test, had this really vivid dream that he was just not willing to speak through the translator that day and [00:13:00] everything I did was wrong to him all of a sudden.
And he was just getting mad at me all the time. Woke up that morning to go to the driving lesson and everything in my dream happened to a T and I was like, what was it like? It was very disturbing to me. And what was so cool about it is. I didn't waver in like my identity and start to question. Oh, like, am I doing something wrong?
I just really trusted the Lord was warning me to prepare that. This is, this is life. Humans are going to be that way. Life is going to throw you curve balls, but I don't have to question my driving. I don't have to question if I'm going to pass the test and I never let it affect me. And I had the test in like a week and a half after that.
And I passed the test. I did everything to a T and it was like, what a, what a testimony to God's Identity just rooting ourselves and like I'm I didn't change anything about my driving and he's having a bad day Why am I gonna let that affect me? Cuz God's got me in the Czech Republic. He's confirmed me to be here This this is just this is just [00:14:00] a fallible human Having a bad day and and yeah drew me to look at what I know is true.
It actually drew me to pray for him and forgive him for that morning. And it actually was really cool because it was like, man, the Lord must be doing something in my discernment because this is actually a really cool opportunity to see that this is actually never happened to me before. So it just helped me realize that through moving to another country, like feeling humiliated a lot of days, not speaking the language.
My identity has just got so rock solid. And then what I've learned this year, the, the, the word I got for this year was listen, because I can't speak very often. And it's unbelievable how it's increased the quality of my coaching, the breakthroughs we're having with clients, the way I'm able to speak into their deep.
Challenges because I'm able to listen better than ever. And it's like, man, like that's, that's what our, I think that's how we learn and grow about the challenges of our identity is listening as we journal, listening as we pray, I think we spend a [00:15:00] lot of time speaking and talking and listening to music, but we don't spend a lot of time listening for the Lord's small whisper.
Hmm, man. That's so good. Yeah. And I, it's funny as you're talking about it now, and I'm thinking about the 190 days of journaling and just some of the stuff you've been on, I really see it in you, man, there's, there's been like some really good, good maturation that God's been doing in your heart the last couple of months.
I think driving school being the pinnacle of that, you know, I know that was like, that was the refiner's fire right there. That was, uh, driving school with an instructor who doesn't speak your language, that's just wild to me. Yeah. And learning stick for the first time. Oh, I didn't know that. I don't know if I knew that part.
Yeah. So learning stick in a new country with a different language. Wow. Sheesh, man. Cause I guess the majority of the vehicles in check are stick. 99%. Yeah. That's the way it's God's design, man. That's the way it's supposed to be. I love driving stick. I miss it so much. That's funny. Oh man, I actually. I taught, I taught Shaloma how to [00:16:00] drive.
So that was like the ultimate test of our relationship. That's right. I can teach you how to drive a car, but my car was a stick. So she had to learn how to drive a driving stick. And, um, she did pass her driver's test first time. So not to brag on my teaching abilities or anything, but, uh, but then like very shortly after we got married and she was like, Yeah, we need to get rid of this car.
She was like, I hate driving sticks so much. It's too much to think about. I was like, okay, well, we'll get there. That's funny. Then it got totaled and then got out of the way. That's right. I remember that now. Yeah, I know. Sad times. I love my, my, my, my boy. It was a good, good little car. Um, I was, I wanted to circle back to fasting.
So the, the one thing that I want people to catch just in case, Um, maybe you've never been, you know, taught on fasting before the one thing I had to learn with fasting is that it's not about depriving yourself. The depravity is really just the catalyst, you know, and whether you do a water fast, which I highly [00:17:00] recommend, I think everybody should do a water fast at some point, but even if you want to start smaller and you just fast, I don't know, dessert, uh, or technology or whatever.
If you are going to do smaller things like that, though, you have to do it for a longer period of time. Like nobody's impressed by you fasting dessert for a day. Um, and it's probably not gonna do much for you. Um, it's not about impressing people, but you know what I mean? Um, but the depravity is a catalyst.
And so when you are hungry, you know, if you're doing a water fast and you get hunger pains. Or even you just see food and you start to, man, Oh, I would love to have a bite of that. Those are little cues that we use to then do something that's going to connect you to God, whether it's reading the word, praying, you know, for me, it's praying.
And biblically there's a very strong link between fasting and prayer. Um, and you can also dedicate other times while you're fasting and that can go a really long way. But I, I've honestly found that even just for me, like when I do fast 24 hours, which is after dinner on Saturday until dinner, Sunday at It's not really that bad when you [00:18:00] think about it.
I only miss breakfast and lunch on Sunday. Like it's not even that terrible. But when I am hungry or whatever, I always have a little theme, something that I'm focused on that I'm preying into. And so, um, you know, like my word for the year, this year is exponential. And so that's something I often tie in, you know, when I'm hungry, I'm just like, God, thank you for exponentially increasing my character or my ability as a father or the business or whatever it is.
Um, and so those two things are what make fasting really powerful. Cause I, I know when I first started talking about fasting, I had a bunch of guys who just went and did it. And then they were like, yeah, I was okay, you know? And I was like, Oh, well tell me what you did. And they're like, well, I just didn't need anything for 24 hours.
I'm like, Oh, cool. But what did you pray into? And they're like, Oh, I don't know. I was supposed to pray. I thought I was just fasting, you know? Um, so I just thought that might be worth mentioning. Is there anything that you do while you're fasting, Sean, that really helps you kind of. I guess tie it all together.
Yeah. Yeah. I think when we're looking at like extended fast, there was a really, really great, like spiritual mother at a church we went to in British Columbia. [00:19:00] And she would say that she, she was like, I think she fasted for like a week, once a month kind of thing. Like she was really, really incredible woman.
Um, we can all do that. It's not too far off, but she would say that when I fast on my own initiative, I feel it because it's hard to get past lunch, but when I fast, when the Lord's convicted me to fast, I can go like weeks without food. And I think that's really cool. Cause I think there's a discipline we can create to fast regularly, but there are, there are times where I know for sure, the Lord is calling me into fasting for at least three days.
Like there's just no doubt about it. And when I don't follow that, it's like a rock in my shoe. It just bothers me. So that's something to really consider is like the last time I fasted. Um, It was one of the easiest fast I've ever done. I was just like, I had zero desire to have food at all. It was just so such a smooth fast.
I just knew it, it was meant to be for that word that I was supposed to hear of the rough soil. And then I just felt so, so, um, it just felt like it [00:20:00] was finished. And when it was over, it was like, So it was so good. But I think for a lot of people, yes, I think for a lot of people, what I tell them is the other.
I think having one or two main focuses while fasting is going to be what draws your heart to the Lord when you are hungry. Um, but I also think it's very easy for us as Christians to get very rigid. Yeah, water fasting. I absolutely think it's the best way to go. But there are also like if you're gonna do a week long fast, like I think Like, I always feel like I am more focused when I'm reading the word, if I have some electrolytes or if I'm, you know, like I'm a dad, I'm going to pick up my daughter and I'm dizzy and I'm almost dropper.
I'm going to have a little bit of like broth or something. Get some nutrition in my body. Not I'm not eating. And a lot of guys are like, because they're so focused on fasting, they think like that's breaking the fast. It's like, The point is to not be thinking about food. The point is to not be spending time eating food.
The point is to be giving yourself to the Lord. So a lot of times I help guys give themselves the grace, not like, like we're not enabling people to just do whatever they want, like drink [00:21:00] broth all day and not actually fast. But you know, I think if we just set our minds on I'm going three days or I'm not making food, I'm not thinking about food, I'm not spending time eating food and all that time is for the Lord, you'll, you will just be blown away at the breakthroughs you have because you'll come to the Lord with a dependency that you probably never have before.
And that's like, that's at the heart of fasting. Like, Hey, I'll have a black coffee on a day. I'm fasting. If I have a full day of clients and I got kids at home, it's like that doesn't take me away from the Lord. Yeah, it's really good. And um, and yeah, and I think I'll say like to me. The ideal is you have the combination of the two you have.
Some sort of habitual fasting that you do with, again, it doesn't have to be weekly. Like I think my, I'm a little bit more on the extreme side of that, but something that's regular. I know some people who do like a 21 day fast at the beginning of every year. I love that. Yeah. Um, and then always just having your ear to the ground.
Or I guess it's not the [00:22:00] guy, whatever, you know, you're having your ear to the Lord, making sure that, you know, when he's prompting you to, to take those extra measures that you're doing it. Yeah. Um, the other thing I wanted to just mention really quick, cause what you just hit on about that, that intimacy piece, which is the purpose of every single spiritual discipline ultimately is to, to draw you closer to God and for God to draw closer to you.
Um, that is the ultimate reward of fasting. And sometimes I think people fast to. You know, to get free of pornography, right? Or people fast to, you know, get some, some specific breakthrough and God honors those things, but, um, I, I'm always reminded of Daniel 10, Daniel 10 is where Daniel talks about fasting and he, he does what's called, what you call the Daniel fast, which is basically not eating meat and cheese.
And it's like, you know, it's vegetables and that kind of stuff. Um, but in that scripture, the, the scripture goes on to talk about how [00:23:00] Daniel fasted to get a breakthrough and the Lord sent a messenger to him to deliver the breakthrough. But he was caught up in the spirit or the messenger was caught up in the spirit for 21 days.
Um, and it's just a, it's a good reminder that sometimes fasting initiates something, but you don't see the manifestation of it until much later. And maybe it's a couple of days or maybe it's even a couple of months. It could be even a couple of years. I honestly feel like there's things I fasted for back in 2017, 2018 that are just starting to happen in my life now.
Um, and so that's, that's just an important thing. Like I, cause I, I do see people sometimes abuse fast and a bit and it becomes a little bit of the slot machine. Like I fasted for 20, 24 hours and now, you know, to chain, like where's my money. And it just doesn't really work that way. It can. Um, and, and actually I shouldn't say it doesn't work that way.
It does work that way. It's just that it doesn't always work that way. And so it's just important that we prioritize that connection with the Lord. [00:24:00] That's really the main goal. And then again, the, the other breakthroughs and stuff, those are meant to be by products or accessory components that come from the fasting experience.
Yeah, yeah, it's really good. Cool. So guys go give it a try, go give it a try and let us know how it goes. And if you have some extra questions, you can, uh, you can write them in here and we'll, we'll see what we can do. Um, but speaking of questions, we'll, we'll jump in. Let's, uh, let's answer a couple here.
Oskar: This question is from David Lynn from Missouri, USA. I've been dating a girl for five years and I've been holding off marriage because I keep relapsing. I don't want to start a marriage with this issue still around. I'm losing hope that I will ever be perfect at this. And I'm thinking that I may need to break up with her so she can have a chance with another guy that's better than me.
She's aware of my issue and we have discussed it in depth.
Shawn Bonneteau: Dang, man, we're getting some like quality dudes writing in these questions. So, uh, for starters, I want to commend, uh, David, David, I want to commend you, man. Um, you're taking [00:25:00] this really seriously and that is, uh, just incredible. Um, I wish more guys would, would take it this seriously.
Um, on the flip side, I think you might be taking it a little bit too seriously. Um, Um, I don't think having this issue is reason enough to not get married. Um, however, unless you're, if your significant other has said that she doesn't want to, she doesn't want to take the next step until it's taken care of, or, you know, whatever it might be.
Um, then I think, I think obviously that needs to be considered. And again, I'm not saying you should rush into a marriage, um, or anything like that either. There's an interesting statement that you made here. I'm just reading this through again. Um, but you say I may need to break up with her so she can have a chance with another guy who's better than me.
And here's where I really want to challenge you is the, the question is not like, are you not watching porn? Cause that makes you good enough to be with this woman. The question is just. [00:26:00] God calling you guys to be together? What's he speaking to each of you? Um, you know, you could, you could have some struggles in your life and still be good enough for the person God brings, uh, towards you.
Um, you know, I was clean of pornography when I got married. And, and I think, I think you're aware that that is the ideal scenario. But man, I have issues with anger. I'm still working on those. Um, I have all kinds of problems that I still have to get in order. I have to kind of figure those things out. And if I would have said, you know, Oh, I have this problem with anger.
I don't always control my. Emotions very well. I can have these outbursts. Shaloma should find another guy who's better than me. You know, that, that would have been kind of irrational. So I think what, what qualifies you guys to be together is more, you know, do your callings align? Do you guys have chemistry and, and do you, do you have fun together?
You know, do you like being together? I'd be looking more at those kinds of things. [00:27:00] Um, especially if she's been with you for five years, it sounds like she's pretty loyal to you. It sounds like this is probably a serious relationship. Now, if for her, this is a deal breaker. Or if you're saying, I hear what you're saying, but I just have a personal conviction that this needs to get dealt with, then I would agree that you need to take this really seriously and you need to make sure that you're actually like investing all you can into your recovery.
And so this is where I really like, I'll really go after guys a little bit and I'll say, Hey, like. If you haven't, you know, invested some time, you know, whether it's like doing a retreat or a program, if you haven't invested some money, um, and if, if you have maybe the solution out there and you're saying, yeah, I'd love to do it one day, but I don't have the time or I can't afford it or whatever, I would say, bro, you, you actually can't afford not to make the investment because now you have a serious, like, we're talking about the rest of your life here.
That's on the line. And I would be taking that really seriously. So that's, especially if there's an [00:28:00] ultimatum or if you're kind of like, if you're starting to get discouraged, um, and you're feeling like you just can't enter marriage without having this dealt with, then you, you have to make a, a really good stab at it.
And, um, I would guess that maybe you've piecemealed some things together. You've tried a bit here. You've tried a bit there. Um, you, you have to really give this a proper go. Um, and it's probably going to cost you something and that's the way it should be for you to get the outcome that you're looking for.
Hmm. Yeah, David, I am the key example here, bringing porn into my marriage. And I'm the one on this podcast. So hopefully you can be encouraged by that. That's a, that's a nice thing that God has done. I think we can give him praise for that. Um, but here's, here's something really important. When I was dating my girlfriend, Helena, um, I, I told her I actually lied to her.
I told her that I was, I was basically going to a support group for pornography addiction as if like I'm getting help for it. Um, so I [00:29:00] sounded like a knight in shining armor, but I was literally just going because they had like a free dinner and the music was pretty good. So I didn't even like, I wasn't even honest with her.
And, and then I, She, she thought like everything was taken care of. So I didn't bring it up again until we were married. Like she didn't really know that things were still going on. I was watching porn in our bedroom while she was in the kitchen, trying on her wedding dress the day before our wedding. So I want to give you a picture.
Like she, she, felt many times that she wanted to leave me while we were dating. We were only dating for 10 months, but she felt like the Lord was in it, that he wanted her to be with me. He spoke to her clearly two or three different times that he has a bigger plan for this. And she saw in me a willingness.
I didn't know what to do. Like I didn't have anybody giving me like the layout deep clean would offer. I didn't grow up in a family that promoted counseling or therapies. I didn't know what to do. That's why I was going to that support group. Um, but I was willing, like she saw anything that I learned. I like, I grabbed onto it and I [00:30:00] did it.
Um, I just hadn't learned that yet. So we got married and I was sober for about two and a half months. Um, you know, started to have sex. That's obviously a big part of that, but I had my first relapse, uh, two and a half months into marriage, and this is the first time that I, I was convicted in a way that had never been before.
Um, I'm married, I can have sex now, and I'm, and I'm in the bathroom masturbating to my phone. Um, so that was actually a huge part of the conviction. That was kind of a rock bottom for me that I needed to experience and it, it amplified. Everything that I felt in some negative ways, but some really important ways.
So the moral of my story is going tying into what Sophia said. Like this has to be something that God wants, but then further, are you willing? Does she see the willingness? Are, are you keeping it from getting married? Or is she like, there's some huge things to consider. And, uh, there's one other thing I'll say that.
Really changed my life when I was still struggling with porn. Helena came up to me one day and she said, Sean, I want you to know how painful [00:31:00] this is for me. She said, my, my trust is like a garden. I've given you the key to my garden and you keep leaving the garden, trampling all the plants on your way out wise.
You go watch porn. And that just devastates me. I've given you the key. I want to trust you, but you're not showing me that I can. So what I need to see from you is that you stop looking outside my garden. I need to see you get on your knees. With big bags of soil and start planting new seeds, planting new plants.
I need to see you get dirty in the garden, starting to care and tend for my garden. So just really challenge you with that. Like, what are you doing to actually tend her trust and her garden and grow something that could be beautiful. Yeah. Beautifully said.
Oskar: Next question is from Ken from Florida, USA.
In my journey to quitting porn, I become somewhat asexual. I seem to do not know how long it will last. Do you have any advice, uh, to get over this side effect as I work to stay away from porn and get clean?
Shawn Bonneteau: Alright, Ken, this is a great question, [00:32:00] man. And I see that you're married, um, and looks like your, yeah, 65.
So, um, Uh, when people say I start to quit porn and I become asexual, um, there's, there could be a couple things happening, but I'll say what's most likely is that actually your testosterone is shifting. Um, and this happened to me as well. Now, I don't have a lot of verifiable data to necessarily back this up.
This is just from working with tons of guys in my own experience. But I would say what you're actually experiencing. I shouldn't say your testosterone is shifting. I'll be more accurate and I'll say your sex drive is shifting. And typically the sex drive will decline for a little bit because It was being satiated temporarily, mind you, by pornography.
Um, and now you've kind of, you're, you're getting your body's physiology to adapt. So that reduced sex drive is probably more what you're [00:33:00] describing. Um, you have to remember people who actually consider themselves to be asexual don't they just don't really acknowledge ever having a sex drive. Typically, um, if, if there's a shift in sex drive, that's usually not a sexual first, that's not where I would be going.
I'd be more looking at, like, what's happening to your physiology. And there is some research that would suggest. Your sex drive does lower temporarily while you're quitting pornography. And trust me, there might not be a ton of research about this. We have a lot of anecdotal evidence, a lot of guys who have experienced this.
So, um, this is pretty normal. It's nothing to be afraid of. Um, the other thing you have to consider, and the reason I mentioned testosterone earlier is that you are, um, in your fifties or sixties, uh, based on the age group you selected, which means that your testosterone will be on the decline. And your sex drive will also be on the decline as a result.
So you have a couple of dynamics that are at play here. And I would say none of them are of concern. [00:34:00] Um, what I would say is, you know, your question is any advice to get over this side effect as I work to stay away from porn and get clean. Not really. Actually, my main advice would be do what you're doing to get clean and keep doing that.
And if you prioritize doing again, assuming you're getting clean the right way, you're getting to the roots, you're making sure that your perception of sex and sexuality is healthy, assuming that you're kind of ticking all those boxes and doing it the right way. What should happen is your sex drive will start to kind of come back.
And I don't know when exactly that will be. It's not, we're not looking at years though. Uh, we're talking about like probably more like weeks to months maximum, depending again on your progress through. But, um, there's nothing really to worry about here. Your main job right now is just to focus on getting clean, um, to focus on clean pornography.
And believe you, me, once you quit pornography and once you are really [00:35:00] doing this the right way. Your sex drive will have no issues if it was in fact affected by, you know, the journey to quitting porn or pornography itself. Uh, once you're, once you're operating cleanly and your body's physiology is restored, you're going to be just fine.
That the engine's going to be humming like no one's business. So I don't think there's too much to worry about here. Yeah, and I think the other element to that would be, depending on what your sexual activity with your wife has been like, you want to look at belief system. You want to look at, do you feel safe with her?
So like for me, when I quit porn, there was this element of, I don't really deserve pleasure from Helena because I've hurt her for so long. It did affect our sex life for quite a while. When I was in recovery in my first year, I There was definitely some purity culture recovery that I was a part of that I, I now know is really toxic, but it was to the point where I would look at an attractive woman and tell myself, like, I don't like that.
I don't want that. And it actually affected our sex life. So there's actually things like our belief [00:36:00] system, our thought life, the way we converse with our partner that can also affect our, our, our desire for sex or sex drive our libido. There's lots to be said about all of that. So I. extensively talked to guys about erectile dysfunction for four years now.
And I've talked to guys literally in their late seventies, early eighties, who had their, him and his wife haven't had sex for years or maybe once a year. And we start cleaning up the core belief system. We start helping them learn how to communicate about their wants, their likes, their desires. Uh, their fears, their shame and speak truth and life into them for each other.
And it's amazing how they start having sex two, three times a week. So there's a lot of hope there from both sides, withdrawals or belief. You can, you can tackle both of those by continuing to move forward and quitting porn, or also continuing to move forward in your healing, the inner world of your life.
Yeah. Yeah. It's really, really good. Yeah. And, and I, I think, um, I think the, the biggest piece of advice here I would, I would give to you is just to relax. Cause I [00:37:00] know, um, for guys, when like the sex drive starts to decline, that's really scary, you know, and I've, I've shared before about even my experiences with ed, um, and it's, it's terrifying, you know, like I feel like a shell of a person.
Um, and we tend to get just very panicky and solution oriented. Um, But again, just keep the main things, the main things here, whatever's helping you quit porn, keep doing it. Make sure you're actually getting to the roots. You're not just, um, you know, settling for like white knuckling or just slapping an internet filter.
And, uh, and I think what Sean said is really good as well. Like be, um, yeah, be conscious of the dynamic there in the relationship. Make sure you're paying good attention and yeah, you'll be, you'll be well on your way here, Ken. So again, this is another really good question. We're cheering you on. Congrats on your journey so far and keep up the good work, man.
Oskar: Next question is from Mark in Utah, USA. I have a problem with ED. I've tried for over 10 years to have penetrative sex with my wife. ED meds gives me a huge headache. I also have low [00:38:00] testosterone, but I also have a high prostate specific antigen, so I cannot be treated with testosterone. My wife is bipolar and is convinced that religiously that the only way to be intimate is to have sexual intercourse.
The only way that I can have an orgasm is by spending too much time with porn and masturbation. This sucks. What should I do?
Shawn Bonneteau: Wow. Uh, Mark, thanks. Thanks for sharing, man. And a lot of transparency on here. So, so well done. And that does suck. That's a really difficult situation to be in. So, um, there's a couple of dynamics here and, um, I'll hit on a few and then I'm sure Sean will be able to, uh, to hit on a couple as well.
So the first thing actually that we probably need to talk about is what constitutes having sexual intimacy with another person. Um, that's a very old school way of thinking. Um, is that it has to be intercourse. Um, the reality is there's lots of ways you can have, uh, sexual intimacy with another person.
So [00:39:00] I think we should probably start there. Um, and again, uh, not to disagree with your wife, but I would say the way she's looking at that is actually incorrect. It's not true. You can have sexual intimacy in a lot of different ways. You know, there's, there's couples where, um, you know, the woman experiences vaginismus, which is discomfort during, um, penetrative sex.
And so often couples in those scenarios will actually explore other ways to experience intimacy. And it's really beautiful. There's some, uh, there's some couples, um, who again, because of the woman's anatomy, and sometimes it's the male anatomy. It's just not possible to have intercourse. Like it's physically, biologically, not possible.
Those couples find other solutions and it's beautiful and intimacy goes well beyond just being able to penetrate. So I want to just start there and hopefully that that gives you a little bit of a different paradigm to work with. Um, the second thing here is, you know, the low T, high PSA or prostate specific antigen.[00:40:00]
Yeah, that's, you know, that's a tough place to be in. Um, I, I think there's a case here to be made that maybe if you could increase your testosterone to fix the problem, but I'm kind of wondering here, um, how much of this might have to do more with pornography and some of your views around sexuality, um, what you're dealing with ed.
Um, and Sean really is the person who needs to answer this part of it. So Sean, can I pass this over to you and maybe you can comment on, on that area. Yeah. Yeah. So when I work with guys with ED and Mark, good to have you ask this question. Yeah. Super transparent and vulnerable. Thanks for, thanks for doing that.
Um, I don't claim to like, no, the medical field that is actually more Sophia's expertise than mine, but it's amazing how many, you know, how many guys I've worked with, even who are in their 60s, 70s and 80s with ed, they've had all these medical diagnoses. They're having like penis injections or taking pills.
They're all these things and 3, 4, [00:41:00] 5, 6 months after working with me, they don't. Need any of that stuff anymore. They rewire their brain. They, they renew their mind. It's, it's really, really incredible. So to piggyback off of that, one of the core, um, assignments or exercises I get a couple to do. Sometimes the guy will do it kind of on his own individually, uh, to prepare himself, cause it's just.
It can be a challenging conversation with, with men is to start writing down all the things that are in the way from you feeling safe to just be yourself. And right now, being yourself would to the world look like failing and what's in the way from you feeling safe to fail, what's in the way from you feeling safe to share some lie you're believing about yourself or the fact that your mind is going towards that.
You know, if I don't get hard right now, you're going to think I'm a loser. If I don't. If I don't, if I don't make you orgasm, I'm a failure of a man. Those are the kind of things that need to be able to be talked about. And that was a huge part of [00:42:00] healing myself with erectile dysfunction with my wife, Helena.
And you know, the 30, 40, 50 guys I've worked with with ED struggles. Um, it's getting what's in the way very clear. The expectations, the lies, the shame, the fear, those have to be identified. Your wife has to do that as well. And you guys need to sit down in a safe environment with no defensiveness, no justification.
And. One by one, say like, Hey, hon, when this happens, this is what goes through my mind. When this is starting, this is what I'm believing. You go one by one. And then the second part of that exercise, which is the best is speaking what's true and factual to the person about the lie they just said. So when I would tell Helena, I don't feel like a real man unless I make you orgasm or I'm such a, I'm such a failure unless I stay hard the whole time to hear her from her mouth.
Look at me and say, I love sex with you, Sean, regardless of what happens, Sean. If sex isn't possible, I love intimacy with you. And to hear that from her to replace that lie and [00:43:00] shame, it opened up this safe space to, as we started to have sex, I would share with her, Hey, and that lies coming up right now. I feel like, Hey, if I don't, if you don't orgasm right now, I'm a loser.
And she would say, Well, hey, remember what I said and she would remind me of the truth and it was unreal how that would lead to us having way more sex than ever before. And we felt emotionally, spiritually, physically connected like never before. And I've taught that to so many guys and it's just had incredible results.
So I, I, I, I'm not just saying that worked for me. It's worked for like lots and lots of other guys who are also in their 60s, So it's very, very cool to be able to share that. Sean's been really successful helping guys with this area, which is why I'm, I'm really glad that you could give that kind of, um, that angle.
Um, the I'll put my behavioral psychologist hat on for just a minute here, Mark, and I'll add one more piece. You know, if we're talking about testosterone, We're talking about ED and then we're talking about the dynamic with your wife. Um, there's really only one thing that you actually [00:44:00] can exercise full control over.
Um, and that's actually the, the situation with erectile dysfunction. You can't change your wife and low testosterone is complicated. There's lots of factors that contribute to testosterone. You do have controllability there, just not as easily. Um, if you are willing to tackle the problem with ED, that is going to be the solution to all this.
And I think your, your, your question is set up that I think you already know that, but, um, what Sean and I are both trying to hint at here is the problem with pornography and masturbating might actually be at the core of all this. And if you are willing to, you know, make a concerted effort for 4 months, 6 months, 8 months.
Really tackle the porn problem and give this like a good shot. Um, it would be really interesting to see what happens. And that is the best shot you have of solving this problem because you're low testosterone. Like you can't, you can't go get testosterone treatment because it's going to affect your PSA levels that are already very high.
You can't, um, you know, you can't just change your wife's mind. And, you know, it sounds like you guys have been married for a [00:45:00] while. So she's probably got her opinions for a reason. Um, the ED thing is the easiest thing to fix. And there could be other things contributing to ED that maybe we're not aware of.
It could be something more medical, and this is not medical advice. We're not a medical show, but if you're willing to quit pornography, And masturbation and really give us a proper try that then you'll have way more clarity on the problem because if you quit that and you still have the problem, we can narrow this down a little bit more.
Uh, but honestly, in our experience and with what Sean's suggesting here, very likely that if you quit porn and masturbating, um, the problem with ed is probably going to change a lot as well. And that's especially if you do it the way that Sean has just laid out, which is not white knuckling. We're not just trying to quit so that it's out of your life and out of your system.
But when you're actually quitting in a holistic way that changes your relationship with sex, Uh, that, you know, develops healthier sexual integrity. And obviously some of the other things that we do around belief systems, emotional work, those kinds of [00:46:00] things, that approach is where you're going to see the most results.
And again, we're not the only people in the world who offer this. There are some other solutions out there. Um, but I would just say, you know, this is your best avenue, um, to kind of problem solving, you know, and making sure that we're, um, controlling what we can control, doing the process of elimination and hopefully getting to the bottom of this issue.
So it's a really brave question, Mark. Thanks for asking. And look, if you enjoyed the show today, please make sure you share this with some other people that you think might benefit from it. And if you are looking for more serious help, there's a link in the show notes for you to check out our case study.
You can find out a little bit more about what it looks like to involve our system in your recovery journey. We'd love to explore it with you. If you think it's worthwhile, you get a chance to book a call with our team. In the meantime, God bless you guys. Thank you so much for watching, for listening wherever you might be.
Have an amazing day at epoxy. Hey everybody, it's the Thea again. Thanks for listening to Unleash the Man Within. I wanted to take a quick moment to let you know about a free ebook that I wrote for you. Called The Ultimate Guide to [00:47:00] Porn Recovery. It provides a basic framework for the recovery process, and a few of my top tips completely free of charge.
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Intro: The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this podcast by Sathya Sam and his guests are for general information only, and should not be considered medical, clinical, or any other form of professional advice, any reliance on the information provided is done at your own risk.
