Speaker 1 (00:00:00) - Hey, hey! My man, what's going on? Welcome to Unleash the Man Within. I'm your host, Sathya Sam. And I'm so glad that you were tuning in today to speak with. Well. Or to listen to an interview, rather with a good new friend of mine named Graham Cochrane. Now, this guy is a businessman. He is a very successful entrepreneur. But what I really appreciate about Graham is that he is kingdom minded. So this guy has coached over 3500 people. He founded the Recording Revolution, which is a seven figure online music business and now hosts over 80,000 monthly followers. On his podcast YouTube channel blog, he talks about business mindset, productivity, psychology and I mean, this guy's been featured everywhere. He is a legend, an absolute legend. Now you might be wondering, like Sathiya, this is a recovery podcast. We talk about sexual issues here in faith. So what's the deal? Bringing on a business guy? Well, for starters, Graham is not like your mega multimillionaire who lives the lifestyle of the rich and famous and is all about like, the prosperity gospel.
Speaker 1 (00:01:03) - Like he's just not that kind of guy. Those are the kind of people we'd bring on anyway. But what he is really passionate about is helping believers make more income so that they can make a bigger difference in this world. And he even gets into some of the nuts and bolts, like, this guy makes a lot of money and he gives away 50% of it. It's like like that's that's why he wants to people to succeed. And so I think anybody who's got that kind of heart about money, I'm really I'm really interested to learn from. And I think that you guys should be too. And so that's why I brought him on. We had a really good conversation, I mean, very well rounded. We talked about a lot of different things. He is as sincere and genuine as they come. I mean, he's just an amazing guy. And right at the end, I would say if you stick around for the last ten minutes, we got into some really, really good stuff. I think you're really going to like it.
Speaker 1 (00:01:53) - And I highly, highly recommend that you go check his stuff out. But make sure that you wait till the last ten minutes. That's where we start to get into fulfillment and some of the more like deeper philosophical pieces that I think you guys would absolutely love. So this is a great interview. Without further ado, let's hop in. This is Graham Cochran. So here's the million dollar question. How are men like us who work hard, have good motives and a God given purpose supposed to fulfill the calling on our lives and the dreams in our hearts, all while establishing sexual integrity, thriving relationships, and a meaningful connection with God? That is the question and this podcast will give you the answers. My name is Sathya Sam. Welcome to Unleash the Man Within. All right. Well, here we are with the legendary Graham Cochran. And, dude, I was saying this before, but I've heard so many good things about you. It's really refreshing to meet people who are in the business space, but kingdom minded, not just for marketing purposes, but actually in the way that they do their businesses.
Speaker 1 (00:03:01) - And I just, I have so much respect for you. You just interviewed me on your podcast, and I have more respect now that I've gotten to know you a little bit more. And I'm super honored to have you today, man. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:03:11) - Oh, it's it's my honor. It's been something I've been looking forward to. I know we had to reschedule a few times, but everyone told me you've got to to connect with Sathiya. And I've just been. I enjoyed our first conversation, so I'm looking forward to this one.
Speaker 1 (00:03:22) - Yeah. Yeah, this is going to be really good. So I was telling you off camera, you know, our audience is all across the board. Lots of different passions, interests and desires. But the number of people that reach out to me about either like starting a business, starting a not for profit, starting something of their own, and also just trying to figure out how to integrate career and family and volunteering at church or whatever it might be in a way that like, actually brings fulfillment.
Speaker 1 (00:03:50) - I think these are two equations that people are often trying to solve, and so I'm excited to tackle them with you today. But I think before we go there, I would love to just hear a little bit of your story, man. How did you get into this space in the first place?
Speaker 2 (00:04:03) - Yeah, I mean, I stumbled to it, I stumbled to it. That's the short answer. Like, I think many things in life. I mean, I'm, I'm figuring some stuff out as I've aged a little bit that it's you think you know what you want to do and and then either it looks different than you thought or you're just you're getting more privy to God's plans. The further along you go in life. And you're really you're learning more about yourself. And I think the more you learn about yourself, the more clear your you're calling your career, whatever that looks like shows up for you. So for me, when I was a kid, the only thing I knew about myself is I love music.
Speaker 2 (00:04:37) - And so at a young age, I was the kid on stage singing. I was a theater kid. I was in rock bands, I was, and I was hell bent on doing that thing because I was a creative through and through. I couldn't imagine getting a job and sitting at a desk. My dad was an engineer who really was a musician, but he traded his passion for being practical. And I'm to this day, I tell him I'm grateful because he and my mom provided a great life for me and my brother and and we had a just a comfortable life. And that gave me opportunities, right, to pursue my passion. But he chose a career and he always never loved it. Right? I mean, he was. And I write about this and and my first book, How to Get Paid for it, you know, and I almost had to get permission for I was like, dad, I'm going to I want to talk about your what you've told me. Is it okay? And but he's very much like he would always kind of come home and be like, I kind of hate my job.
Speaker 2 (00:05:23) - And he would he would kind of complain about it a little bit or he was never excited. It was just a thing he had to do. And that was obvious. He didn't hide it from us. And I just remember at a young age going, I'm not going to do that, whatever it is. Like engineering, not the point, but like whatever it is, I'm not going to do a job that I don't like that I'm just doing to pay the bills and no knock on my dad. I just it was like ingrained deeply in me, like, I'm going to pursue what lights me up. And so I tried that, I tried that, and so I thought going into college and my parents kind of saved money for college. My my grandfather saved money for college. I literally told them I wasn't going to go to college. I have a whole story about this in my second book that I'm writing about how, you know, I told my guidance counselor she brought me in one day and was like, hey, Graham is like junior year.
Speaker 2 (00:06:08) - She's like, I noticed that, you know, I haven't seen what schools you're applying to yet, and we're all kind of starting to apply for schools. And I said, oh, that's it's really easy to explain because I'm not going to go to college. I'm just going to be a rock star. And, and she, she, like you could see like the blood drain from her face. Yeah. And and I'd never been in the guidance counselors office, but this moment was so profound where she said, Graham, you know, we we are a college prep school. My mom taught at this nice private school. And so we got half off tuition and I went, and it was a great school. She was like, we have a 100% college acceptance rate. I don't care if you go to college, but you must apply to college and get into a college for our record. And she told me straight up like that's like the, the, the stat that they care about. And I was like, oh, that's when I realized there is this current of conformity out there that's so deep.
Speaker 2 (00:06:56) - And like, that was the path that we're all supposed to go down, or at least show people. I was like, this is crazy. I was like, I don't want to do this. I had to go to college. My parents say they agreed with her, so they said, you're going to go. I don't care what you do after college, but you're going to go because we save money for you, and your grandfather would want you to go. And so I found out that you could learn audio engineering. You could play in recording studios and get a degree in audio engineering. So I went to a school that did that, and I figured, fine, I'll play in a recording studio for my major, and then I'll be writing songs and I'll be networking, and I'll be trying to get a record deal by the time I graduate. Fast forward my senior year, I had a mentor. I had a professor who used to like tour with Sammy Hagar and Elton John and all these guys who was a keyboard player, and he's like, I really want to pull out whatever connections I have for you because I really believe in your songs.
Speaker 2 (00:07:41) - We made a record, shopped it around, and it was just like crickets. It was like, not, not, not, you know, nothing special there. And then the best I was offered was like a couple development deals, which basically means we'll put you on our roster and we'll sign you, but we won't throw any money your way. We'll see what you do. And if you start to take off, then we'll throw money behind you and say that we developed you. And so I was about to get married at the time, so we were talking about like my age of my kids. I got married at age 22. So here I am, 22, about to get married. I'm like, I need an advance. Like I need money. I'm banking on this being my job. And I couldn't drag Shay, my fiance now wife, through like pursuing this dream and us having no money. And so I chose the safe route. I chose to get a job and I was I was bitter for a long time, man.
Speaker 2 (00:08:27) - And this is something I'm writing about. My book, rebel Find Yourself by not following the crowd. I was lost for about four years. I just try to be a good husband. Good father tithed to my church, you know, work a job that I hated and figure it out. And then long story short, it took a global recession. 2009 we were moving down to Tampa, Florida to help my buddy plan a church. I was the volunteer worship guy, lost two jobs during the recession. We just bought a house. My first daughter was just born. Oh my God. We were on food stamps for 18 months and I was like, what do we do? Like I and I couldn't go back to a job. I was like, I just can't do this. And. I felt like I'm going to take a chance on a freelance business because I had been recording bands on the side as like a side hustle, and that's how we, like saved up money for a down payment.
Speaker 2 (00:09:11) - It was just like extra money, right? And I felt like the Lord was saying, hey, here's your chance, here's your chance to go all in. And so what I did in 2009 was start a YouTube channel, which turned out to be very strategic back. Then start a YouTube channel and a blog thinking I would show what I was doing with what few clients I did have, like just show some of the work I was doing and get some credibility and get some potential leads from remote work. And what I didn't know that was going to happen is that people were going to find the content, love the content, want more content. They didn't want to hire me. They wanted to do it themselves, but they wanted to learn from me. And they were gobbling up the videos. And it took me a few months to realize there's something here. And if I don't find a way to monetize this, I can't justify the time I'm spending doing it for free because I'm broke. Like literally broke.
Speaker 2 (00:09:57) - I need to make money. And so I just stumbled through the dark and figured out the course business, the online membership community business, the YouTube business. I figured it all out before I knew there's people doing this. And that business is called the Recording Revolution. I launched in 2009. It still exists today. I don't make the videos for it anymore. The last couple of years I stepped out, but I've been coaching people on that business model ever since and it's just been a wild ride, bro.
Speaker 1 (00:10:19) - Wow, wow. That's incredible. So what was it like? So you said you were on food stamps. That's that's like 2009, 2010, like peak of the financial crisis.
Speaker 3 (00:10:30) - Yep.
Speaker 1 (00:10:31) - How did you find the confidence to to actually put your own stuff out there? Like were you also scrambling for jobs, like, were you just throwing your eggs in a bunch of different baskets and seeing what kind of lifted?
Speaker 2 (00:10:42) - Yep. Yeah, for sure. I was like, what can I do to make money? And so I knew I could record bands.
Speaker 2 (00:10:47) - So I was hitting up all previous clients. Hey, do you have a new album coming out? Do you need someone to mix your record like I was? I started the blog in the YouTube channel thinking like, well, I don't know anybody in Tampa yet. So while I'm getting to know the local area, I might as well get on the internet and be where people are searching for stuff. I mean, I knew enough back then to know that Google was a search engine, obviously, and that YouTube is primarily a search engine more than anything, it's just a giant search engine. So I figured I might as well show up in both places, and I was doing anything I could. But back then it was like my parents and my little brother and my in-laws were like sending us checks and like, grocery gift cards and bro, like, my wife came to me and she was she had had a friend whose husband had lost his job in the construction industry, and they had applied for it's called Snap now, but food stamps.
Speaker 2 (00:11:33) - And she was like, Shay, we're getting like 500 bucks a month. And this was even back then 500 bucks a month for for groceries. And it's amazing. So she was like, babe, we got to apply for this. And I remember like I was like, are you crazy? Like, yeah, we're not those people. I literally that came out of my mouth, which it's such a judgmental thing to say. But that was my mindset of like, that's not who I am. Like, I'm middle class, I'm college educated. I just like, I couldn't associate myself as like falling that low if I'm being very like, vulnerable. Right. And and I'm just being honest about my heart. And so she, I said no, she came back two weeks later and asked again. She's like, babe, we really need the money. Like, can we apply at least apply?
Speaker 3 (00:12:12) - Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:12:13) - And I finally did. And we had to go downtown Tampa and like, you know, you're in the line with a bunch of people that you're like, wow.
Speaker 2 (00:12:19) - Like we all need the same help. I mean, it was a humbling experience of like, I like nowadays I pay a lot in taxes. Like I try to like I have good tax advisors and we try to, like, not give them government money. We don't need to give them. But I pay a lot in taxes and part of me hates it, but part of me appreciates when it's handled well for people that really need the help. Because for 18 months we really needed the help and it got us through while I was building a business and trying everything I could. I mean, I made $7,000 in my first year full time of like working four plus days a week. It took me a while. It was year two towards the end that I was able to get to what I thought was like a full time salary of $60,000. So it was it was a long time of and I needed that help. And I'm so grateful that I had it.
Speaker 1 (00:13:04) - Yeah. Oh, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1 (00:13:05) - So I have a couple more questions about this, but I think it's important we probably finish this story. So so you mentioned the second year like so okay. Now you can at least support yourself. You can support your family. Maybe you're off the Snap program or food stamps or whatever it might be. And then what happened from there? Because you've been very, very successful, Graham. And I know it's uncomfortable sometimes just to talk about what you've done or the successes, but give us a little bit of an idea of kind of what you've been able to build since then.
Speaker 2 (00:13:32) - Yeah. I mean, it's been a wild ride. So what I've done with the recording Revolution, it took me probably about year one. I made 7000 a year to by the end of the year. It wasn't consistent, but there was. This is what you'll see in business. If anyone's starting something, you can't look at your your first few months or a year even and look back at the the pace of growth, whether it's on social media or customers or revenue and, and project forward, that it's going to continue to grow in that linear way.
Speaker 2 (00:14:00) - It's not linear. There really is a momentum. Theory of especially if you're doing content like I do. And what I mean content, I mean evergreen content, something that's searchable, that's sticks around, not social media reels that will disappear unless it goes viral. And we can get into that if you want. But every piece of content you put out there is stacking and stacking. And so there is a point where it hits an exponential curve. And for me, that was year two at the end of the year, like it just started to hit. And I'm trying new offers and products as well. But I had enough of an audience that it hit 18 to 20 months in, so I made 60,000 by the end of that year. Year two. But 30 days later, I was going from making 5000 a month on average to 10,000 a month on average. Didn't do anything different. And this is the point I'm trying to drive home is you're stacking this content, this searchable stuff, credibility in the space, the algorithms like you because you're consistently posting.
Speaker 2 (00:14:50) - And it's stuff that people like. Obviously, if you're doing a good job and they're engaging with it and so then you get rewarded eventually. It's not fast. It's not a fast way to make money, but you reward it eventually. And so it hit six figures in year three. It doubled to 250. And year four I got up to 500 in year five. And then it was a slower growth from your five to year eight. But by year eight I made just over $1 million like 1.2. And that was 2018 was my first like million dollar year. And then it grew from there. And I launched my personal brand in 2018 as well, and that became $1 million a year business as well. We should do 2 million this year. But what's interesting to me, and we can get into it as well, is really the business model that allows me to hit revenue goals that are for me and my family. That's really great money. I mean, some people want to make more, but it's great money, but it requires so few hours to work and it's very flexible, which is something I found a lot of my students want as well.
Speaker 2 (00:15:45) - They don't just want to make a lot of money. They're very specific. They're like, I want to make good money, but I really want to own my time and enjoy the day like I want to wake up and enjoy the type of day I have. And that's a currency that's valuable to them as well.
Speaker 3 (00:15:57) - Yeah, it's interesting hearing.
Speaker 1 (00:15:59) - Like Tony Robbins research of like he spoke with whatever, how many 60 billionaires or something like that. And he realized that it was only like 3 or 4 of them who actually said, I'm happy, right. Like that I actually enjoy my life. And that's the one thing that I it's why I wasn't just, like, interested in getting you on. I was really excited is because I think we share that similar value system of like, there's more to life than just making money and creating huge empires. Like, that's sort of the means to living a life of fulfillment and having time for family and making a difference in the kingdom of God. Like some of the things that you know, are probably a little bit more important, really, in the grand scheme of things.
Speaker 1 (00:16:37) - So I would love I'd love to hear your business model a little bit, and how you've set this up so that you have growing businesses that are profitable and successful and making a difference, but not at the expense of time and all of your energy.
Speaker 2 (00:16:52) - Absolutely. This is what I love. So the business model has four core elements to it. It's pretty simple. So the first one and arguably the most important is free organic content that's valuable. And so that could look like blog posts I did. I've written thousands of blog posts over the years. Podcast like this or a YouTube video. Those are my three favorites. If you had to go all in on one today, I would say YouTube. It just it's it's such a great platform for people building trust and credibility because they can see you, they can hear you. There's a lot of engagement interaction there. And the algorithm is probably the most favorable for new content creators and new channels compared to, if you want to call it a social media platform.
Speaker 2 (00:17:35) - I don't view it as social media, but if you want to compare it to Instagram or TikTok, it really is more favorable to the newer channel, so you can get some exposure early on, which is great, and I'm happy to dive into any of the details on YouTube, but it's like committing to what's the niche I want to serve? Like, who are the people I want to serve? For me, when I started, I had friends always asking me because they knew I was an audio guy and a musician and a worship leader. They're like, Graham, I want to record my own songs, and I want them to sound great because they sound like crap. I don't know what to buy. I don't know how to hook it up. I don't know how to use the software. I don't understand what EQ and compression and all this stuff is. And I don't want to become an audio engineer. I don't want to learn it. I just I just want it to work in my music, sound good? And people go, wow, did you do this at a real studio? And I was like, that's my friends.
Speaker 2 (00:18:21) - And so I realized, and that was who I was in high school in the 90s trying to figure this stuff out, like, like the gear sucked back then, you know, and I was trying to figure it out on a budget, too. These are not people that had thousands and thousands of dollars to spend. So I decided, you know, I can help those people. And there was a big shift in our industry at the time where the cost of equipment in the recording studio was plummeting a lot like digital cameras, like you can get great cameras for real cheap now. And so is the same thing was happening in audio. So I thought, you know what, I'll make a YouTube channel and a blog post like a blog around helping these people and something that I called sort of anecdotally the recording Revolution. And that wasn't even supposed to be the name of the business. I was like this. It was more of a descriptor of what I felt like was happening in. The early 2000 was like, it's a revolution in the recording industry.
Speaker 2 (00:19:05) - And so I just named it that as like a placeholder. And it stuck. Kind of like the Foo Fighters, like Dave Grohl is like, if I never knew I was gonna be famous, I would never have named my band the Foo Fighters. But, um, and so, dude, I just started helping the people I once was, right? Like Rory Vaden, the person you're most powerfully positioned to serve as the person you once were. And so I was like, I'm going to help that avatar in every video I did for 12 years before I handed off the videos, was imagining an amalgamation of my friends who had the same problems that I had, and I would speak to them in the singular like, hey friend, here's how you do this one thing. And that's what I did. I created that content because it's what I knew, and I wasn't a professional in terms of like, I had any clients that were Grammy Award winners. All of my clients were indie artists you'd never heard of.
Speaker 2 (00:19:48) - But I by creating the content, what you do is establish credibility and trust. So if you're nobody, that's the best way to establish credibility and trust is serve. Just get up there and serve. Blow people's minds with what you know has worked for you. And maybe for friends. They can test drive your content and go try what you suggested, whether it's in fitness or weight loss or learning French or fixing motorcycles or these are all like actual clients I have. Then go do it and then like, wow, what Graham said actually worked. And so now they're interested in learning more from you. So that's that's like a trust builder. But it's also my marketing. Like that's how people when they're searching up how to set up a recording studio. If I have videos on that subject with that title, I have a chance of showing up in a search result. And that's how people find me. I don't run ads. I've never spent any money on paid traffic. It's all just organic content. That's the most important pillar, and it's probably the one that really you don't outsource and you can get really efficient with.
Speaker 2 (00:20:42) - But it's the one that I keep doing every single week. The other three you kind of do once in a way, and then they kind of stick around. So this is why this business model scale, so it's content. People find you, they like you, which you lead them to go deeper and get off the platform onto your email list. And people don't understand how important email marketing is. It's still the number one driver of sales online, more than social, and more than paid social like. People are used to getting an email from a brand and and seeing a sale, or seeing a thing and clicking the link over to a website and buying a thing that's just we that's how we buy. We might see it on social a lot and stay top of mind, but we buy when we get an email. And so you also can't trust a platform like YouTube or Instagram or TikTok to a you could get shadow band. B the platform could change their algorithm. See, the platform could fall out of popularity like Myspace did.
Speaker 2 (00:21:31) - I mean, Myspace was the thing until it. Nobody knows what Myspace is or vine or any of these platforms. You never know what's going to happen. And so what I want to do is be found on these platforms, serve people powerfully, and then offer them something in exchange to get on my email list. And usually this is a free guide, a checklist of I call this a lead magnet. I'm asking for their email address. In exchange, I want to give them another juicy thing for free. So that worked great. It could be a video training, it can be a special podcast, but get them on your email list. Once you've done that, the email list, you set up a tool, whether it's with MailChimp, which is free, or ConvertKit or Kajabi, any of these tools that can do your emails to your list automatically, you can pre write a handful of emails. We call this a funnel, and it's basically a pre-written email sequence that says, hey, here's the free thing you signed up for.
Speaker 2 (00:22:19) - Thanks for joining my list. Add some more value. Eventually you build some more trust and credibility, and in a few days you can offer a paid digital product. That's the fourth component, and that could be an online video course. That could be a paid community. You could offer one on one coaching. But if you're talking about scaling, usually a paid video course is the best way to do it. And so you get those things in place. And once you've filmed the course, once it's there, once you've written the email sequence, it's there. Once you have the lead magnet, it's there. It's really just component one that you commit to every week or as much as you can, and it feeds the other three. And then that's how my workweek has gone from 32 hours a week. When I started, I worked four days a week. I took a day off on Friday because I was volunteering all Saturday and Sunday for the church, so I had a mentor. So you have to take at least one day off.
Speaker 2 (00:23:05) - You need a Sabbath. So I only have ever worked 32 hours a week in the beginning when I was making nothing. That's how I've gone from 32 hours a week down to five hours a week, and the business went from 7000 a year up to now, 2 million a year. And it's like primarily because of the model itself. Yes, you can outsource some things and delegate a few things, but I'm pretty much the main person. I'm the only full time staff person. But it's it's the scalability of once you have all the content out there and the system set up, it just feeds itself.
Speaker 1 (00:23:32) - Wow, wow. That's amazing. Yeah. And I think that's really inspiring because for people who are listening, who are maybe on the fence or you have something you want to start, that that kind of model feels very sustainable. You know, and I think sometimes we hear the stories of the entrepreneurs who burn themselves out, or they work 60 hours a week, they have no time for family or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (00:23:53) - And, and I think there's so many ways to do it that don't lead down that path. And this is a very, very good example. What what would you say. Because. You're helping a lot of people venture out into entrepreneurship. So what would you say to somebody who's like, Graham, I want to, but I don't know if my idea is going to work. I don't know if I have what it takes. What if I fail? I don't want to live on food stamps for 18 months. No disrespect, you know, but what would you say to people who I'm sure you've talked people down from all kinds of ledges? How do you how do you get people to maybe take a step towards actually starting something?
Speaker 2 (00:24:28) - Yeah, it's a fair question in my book how to get paid for it. You know, I felt like I had to address that question early on, because if people don't feel like they can do it, it doesn't matter how great the information is. And this is just a side note, if you're making any kind of content paid for free, I think the most powerful thing you can do inside of each piece of content, whether it's a video or a podcast or a blog post, is to not just transfer information like, hey, here's the facts, here's how it works, but transfer empowerment.
Speaker 2 (00:24:57) - Like, give people the empowerment. Like, I don't just teach people how to do a thing. I make sure that at least from my end, what I can control, that when they walk away from that video or that experience with me, they not only know the thing, but they actually feel like they could go do the thing. I'm like, I think I could do this. There's a big difference between now I understand it to like, I feel like I could do this. That's that's giving someone a real gift. And so I wanted to do that in the beginning of the book so that people felt like, you know what, I think I could do this. And then they would venture on and read the rest of the book. Maybe. So the great thing is, is that, like, if you feel those feelings. Welcome to the club. Welcome to being a human being.
Speaker 3 (00:25:34) - Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:25:35) - I felt that way for sure. I mean, when I was starting what I was doing here.
Speaker 2 (00:25:39) - Imagine this. Imagine you're starting a blog about audio recording in 2009 and you don't even know what you're doing. Is this even a legit business model? There's not even a gram saying, hey, here's the four pillars of the business model. Here's how it works. Here's my book, here's a course, here's, you know, and there's bajillion content creators making a living on this model. I didn't even know it was a model. So it's not like I'm going to take a risk on starting out as a realtor, or starting out as a lawyer, or starting out as this freelance thing. Like at least there's a model that you know exists and you're going to try your hand at it. I didn't even know what I was doing, so I was even more scared. And I would imagine going to Christmas dinners or seeing people on holidays and they're asking, you know, have you found a new job yet? And you tell them, no, because I'm not looking for one. And then they look at you like you're crazy.
Speaker 2 (00:26:26) - You're like, well, what are you doing? And you tell them, I'm blogging about audio recording. And they ask you, how does that make money? And I'm like, I haven't figured that part out yet.
Speaker 3 (00:26:33) - I was.
Speaker 2 (00:26:33) - So ashamed. I was embarrassed, like I was not the confident, like, I'm going to do this. Like the story reads nice when you look back and connect the dots and tell the story. But just for full disclosure, I had no clue what I was doing. I second guessed it the whole way, and I didn't know the model, and I probably would have given up if it weren't for my wife, who I think had a prompting of the Holy Spirit of like, there's something here, because she was like, I'm just as scared as you, but I think that you're on to something. I think this is worth pursuing. And if I didn't have her because I felt the same thing, but I would have quit. Like I was scared. I tell people I was scared.
Speaker 2 (00:27:05) - The first line of my book is, I never wanted to be an entrepreneur. Like it just never was something I was interested in. So if you felt those things, I'm just trying to say, like, I empathize, like it's scary. You don't know if it's going to work out. You're taking a risk. Here's the thing, though. Everybody feels like an imposter when they start until they're not. You know, everyone feels like, who am I to do this until they've done it? There's a few outliers that just have this innate like confidence, like, I'm going to crush this, but I haven't met very many when they're honest. That really felt that way in the beginning. So you're in good company if you feel that way, and just know that there's someone else in the same niche that you're considering that's just as scared as you are, but who's going to do it anyway? And they're going to be successful not because they're better than you or more talented, but because they decided to just do it even though they were scared.
Speaker 2 (00:27:51) - Crap. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So that's like, it's really up to you. Do you want to change your life and are you willing to do it? Scared. As my friend Christy Wright says, do it scared like it's I've been scared. When I started that first business in 2009 and then, hey, when I got the itch to start my personal brand in 2018 to teach people about this online business, that was scary because now it was even harder. I was successful at this one thing. I was making really good money and I was now known as Graham, the Recording Revolution guy. You know, 600,000 YouTube channel subscribers and like interviews and like even my heroes that are mixing Grammy Award winning albums like, like the audio heroes, like they were like, interested in, like collaborating with me. And we were doing courses together and, and now I want to kind of leave that and start something and jump into a bigger niche. Where to your point, Tony Robbins and all these gurus and the Russell Brunson's in the world that already are crushing it in this space? Yeah, I talked myself out of it for three years.
Speaker 2 (00:28:47) - In 2015, I knew I wanted to teach online business, I was bored, I was successful, I needed purpose and significance, and I waited till 2018 to actually do it because it took me that long to have the guts and I was already successful at a thing. But. Just goes to show. Anytime you're doing something new, it's going to be scary. And and dude, like I'm in another expansion or pivot right now. Like I feel like God saying, get on stages, speak more, write books that aren't necessarily just about business. Have conversations that aren't just in your lane about online business. Like step into a new thing. I'm like, but everything's working. God, I got two businesses that are healthy. Why am I? But but there's there's a fear that comes up again. So I would just say that's normal. The choices. How bad do you want? What's on the other side of it, which is true with any change, is what's on the other side. There's way more upside than there is downside.
Speaker 2 (00:29:39) - The downside is it doesn't work. And it's a side hustle that never gets off the ground after a couple of years, and you just keep doing what you're doing. That's not much of a downside. You're really not going to be embarrassed because no one's paying attention to you when you start out anyway. No one knows who you are. So no one's really looking, so you have nothing to worry about. But the upside is tremendous. The upside is uncapped income, more security, less risk. Because now you're not worried about a recession or your employer or industry changing or ie taking your job like you own. You own your job, you own your niche. You're creating value in the marketplace. So I feel like it's far less risky to be an entrepreneur these days than it is to be a 9 to 5 employee, so you reduce your risk, I think unlimited income potential. And then here's the kicker. And this is what you wanted to talk about I think is more important. You get your life back because now you have a business that you can control.
Speaker 2 (00:30:28) - And what I love teaching people is how to like, how can we reduce the number of work hours, which you'd be surprised how many people who are making tons of money, they just think they need to keep working more, and they keep putting the gas on harder, and they can't slow down because they think the income will go down. And that's not true. I've proven that it's not true. The income will go up the less you work, because it forces you to get efficient. What's really driving my business and what's just filling time. And you know, you've read the four hour work week and we have that same passion for that book. He challenged you to think about work for work sake. Most of us, that's what we're doing. 80% of the work we're doing isn't really driving the results. And so the upsides are not only the security of your own business and unlimited income potential, but flexibility, because now you can work. I try to take people in my community from, you know, a few hundred bucks a month in their business to 10,000 a month minimum and 20 hours a week maximum of work.
Speaker 2 (00:31:17) - That's like the sweet spot that most of my students want to get to. And that's very easy to do, and a lot of them do a lot more money and a lot fewer hours. But that's sort of like the baseline I try to get people to.
Speaker 3 (00:31:25) - Yeah, I think that's.
Speaker 1 (00:31:27) - Just so it's so incredible. And you talk about it so effortlessly, which tells me that you've actually seen enough people go through this process that you believe in it. And that's that's really, really amazing. So let's, let's paint this picture a little bit more because I think I know for me, I've told some of my entrepreneurial friends about my big dreams of, you know, like not having to work a ton and like, granted, we're very we're very blessed. Like, my model is different, but I do have a team that's helping me give me a lot of time back. And having a baby on the way has really accelerated. Probably, and forced me to kind of do that a little bit more quickly, which has been a really good thing.
Speaker 1 (00:32:06) - But I definitely have had some entrepreneurial friends who are like, but why would you want to work less? You know, some people, they love the drive, you know, they love working, they love the grind, and that's fine. Like everybody's got their own thing. But I'm just wondering if you can talk a little bit about what are what are some of the other things you've spent your time with when you only have to work five hours a week or ten 15 hours a week, what do you do with the other hours in the day that that make your life fulfilling and worthwhile?
Speaker 2 (00:32:31) - Yeah, that's a that's a great question. I just literally today as we're taping this, my episode dropped on the podcast of my five hour workweek. And I walk people through what I actually do and then how you can have one. But this is a question I get a lot because people either are like, oh, that's awesome. Or they look at me like really confused, like, why would I want to work five hours? I want to work a lot.
Speaker 2 (00:32:50) - I mean, I would say the beauty is it's whatever you want it to be, right? The whole point is design your business the way you want it to be. But here's what I've discovered. And my wife, she does the same thing. She's she's been running a company called Live Visuals for years now. And and she's the CEO of it. She founded it. It's like a photography stock stock photo agency for female business owners. But like, she's only ever worked 16 hours a week in it. She works two days a week, eight hours a day, and and that's it. And when she talks to people who are, let's say, you know, women usually she's speaking to who are in their 20s and they're not married yet or they don't have kids yet. They say that makes sense. Like, if I had a family, you know, but like, I'm single now, so, like, I don't need to work less. I can just work a lot. And my wife always challenges them.
Speaker 2 (00:33:33) - These young women says, like, you're you're so much more than your work, though your time is. You're worth more than just if. Once you become a mom, once you become a wife, then you should work less like. Don't you have other other aspects of your life that are valuable that you should consider, like your sleep? Are you sleeping enough? Your health? Do you get time to exercise? Do you have hobbies? Do you have a mom that you want to call or should call? Like do you serve in your church? So I think it brings up a bigger conversation about identity and the. Western culture at least, were very much identified as what we do. And so, especially if you are blessed to find something that you love to do and get paid well for it, it makes so much sense as an American to just go all in and just work all the time. And I will say this, working and having a business is far more rewarding in the carnal sense than being married or having raising kids.
Speaker 2 (00:34:20) - Like raising kids is not the most rewarding thing in a lot of the years. Like probably it is for me. I have teenagers now, and it's a little bit more rewarding now, and I'm sure when we're like our adult children and we're friends in that way, it'll be like the most rewarding thing. But like when they're young, you're not getting a whole lot back from them. You're pouring out to these little, these little heathens, as you'll find out soon, that are so cute, so wonderful. But they drive you nuts. They don't give you much in return. And you know, for being married, that marriage isn't all roses, you know, like, it's. It's hard sometimes. And sometimes it's easier to just get on your phone and check your analytics or like, do a podcast or like, sell a thing than it is to engage with your wife when things are rough, like so. I think all people married or not, find fulfillment very easy from work, especially if you're good at it and it's harder than other things.
Speaker 2 (00:35:07) - So there's just there's are some subtext to it. But to your actual question, like, for me, it's all about I wanted to have time with my family. And so I what it looks like in the common household is I'm always home. I'm always, always around in the morning to like, wake up my kids, make them breakfast. You know, we try to we try to like, open the Bible with them in the morning and, and unpack something. It's not that spiritual. Most of the time they're like half asleep and they're eating their oatmeal and they're so bored. But we try to like, start with the word with them. And I'm up early because they're up early because of their school. So I'm up at 5 or 530. So I have like an hour of time to myself in the Bible, in my journal, in prayer, in gratitude and silence and solitude. Then they get up, and then I spend time with them with breakfast, and I try to check in with them before they go to school, because once they're in school age, you don't get to see them that much.
Speaker 2 (00:35:54) - And my oldest, I only have four more summers with her until she's out on her own. And so when I think about that, I want as much time with them as possible. So owning my mornings, I don't have to rush off anywhere. I get to take them to school every day, drop them off every day. And that's important to me. And then I get to pick them up every day from school. My wife and I tag team on that, and we're home. When they're home, we're home. So like if they're home at three, we're done at three. If they're home at four, we're done at four. You know, we're not working in the afternoons. We don't work in the evenings. My wife and I take Fridays off. It's our date day. Instead of a date night. We take a date day every Friday. We'll go work out together or go for a walk, or we'll go out to brunch or go to lunch, or go see a museum or go to the beach or like whatever.
Speaker 2 (00:36:33) - We just hang out. Sometimes we're just running errands together. At least we have time together outside of with the kids. And then, you know, weekends I don't work, you know, we want to be able to do this, like the stuff my wife wants to do, like chores and the stuff that I want to do, like, watch football.
Speaker 1 (00:36:47) - You know, we'll try to do.
Speaker 2 (00:36:47) - A mixture of the two and then church on Sunday and, and so that's like a weekly rhythm. But then there's the yearly rhythms of we like to travel and we like to unplug like I need like breaks. I'll get burnt out emotionally if I'm like, just if I'm still doing the same thing over and over again. So I need like July. Typically we'll unplug for the whole month. Most July's in the summer. I usually work one day a week because the kids are home, and so I want to be around it as much as possible. And so the beauty of owning your schedule is you can it can be seasonal in the year.
Speaker 2 (00:37:17) - It can be seasonal as the stages of your kids or the stages of your family, like if you have a spouse or kids that get sick, like you want to have the ability to change up your work schedule to fit that challenging season or a good season, whatever it is. So when you own your time, you can flex and rush things around. And that's what life is all about, is just the flexibility. And I remember like polling people. When I started this business, I was doing Facebook Live before I launched the second business, I was like, I'll just test out content in 2017, and I was just teaching a bunch. And then I'd ask people like, hey, when you think about starting a side hustle or a business like, why? What's the number one reason why? And a lot of people say, yeah, money, but more people than money said, I want flexibility. I would love to own my time. And that struck me as like, dude, these are my people.
Speaker 2 (00:38:01) - And like, there's and we're seeing this, right? There's a there's a trend now where it's people are so sick and tired of having to ask permission to take a trip or to just go to a funeral or to go be with, like their grandmother who's just like, not doing so well. And you have to fly across the country. You just want to sit with her for five days, like I did last year in Seattle. I just flew out there on a whim because I could, like, I don't I don't want to be beholden to somebody, even if I like my job. And so I think that's the most valuable currency. Is that flexibility, owning your time. And that's that's what I love. So I don't do a lot of glamorous stuff. We're traveling a bit more now, but we still have kids that are in school. But like just the the freedom to do that, to take a month off, you know, in the summers is usually when we do most of our stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:38:43) - We spent a month in the south of France a few years ago. We were in Puerto Rico for a month last year. It's fun to be able to do that and just show our kids a different way of thinking and a different way of life and bore them to tears. But we have those options.
Speaker 3 (00:38:55) - Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:38:56) - And I think you're right. I think that flexibility is a big deal for a lot. People and more and more, it's becoming easier, you know, it's easier to step out and to do it. So if somebody were to start today so they're going to they're going to do your model. They're going to they're going to create some free content that makes them discoverable in a search engine machine. They're going to build an email list. They're going to hit that email list, and they're going to build a product on the back end. How do people figure out what they should actually focus on and what that should look like?
Speaker 2 (00:39:28) - Yeah, it's a great question. Here's what most people do wrong.
Speaker 2 (00:39:31) - They they hear about like the idea of online courses. And they go, oh, I'm going to make an online course that sounds like a ticket to my freedom. And so what they do is they, they go make a course and then you have two major problems. One, you have no one to sell it to because nobody knows you exist. It doesn't matter how good the course is. And two, the course is probably not going to be good. Not because you're not good, but because you don't know what people really need help with. You have an idea, but you don't know exactly. And so what I recommend people doing, and to your point about I don't want people to have to follow my journey of going on food stamps. If you have a source of income, I say treat it like a side hustle that you're going to commit to, but there's going to be a couple of phases. Phase one is going to be building the brand by just giving away free content, and you're not going to sell anything.
Speaker 2 (00:40:15) - If anything, if you really want to, you could start selling one on one coaching. And it doesn't matter how much you charge, just have you one on one. Coaching in the early days is getting paid to research your avatar. Like find out what real people want. But that's really phase one is like, if I have like when I started this brand, you know, I started from zero again, even though I had a huge email list, like they were all musicians that wanted to learn how to record music, there were some that maybe were interested in business, but most weren't. So in effect, I was starting over from scratch. And so when I started, I was like, I'm not going to sell anything, I'm just going to. I wrote down I was on a flight and I was like, what are like 30 things I could teach about this online business model? And so I just bullet pointed like 30 things and it might be like, hey, you know, evergreen content or what a lead magnet is, or what an email funnel is or whatever.
Speaker 2 (00:41:00) - I started to come up with things and then that's what I call planned content. You probably have an idea of like, whatever you've helped people do in the past, whatever people come to ask you about, like, hey, if you're the person, they're like, hey, how do I take good photos? Because they know that you take beautiful photos of your kids. Like, you probably could help people with their photography. And then what are the questions they've asked you in the past, or those you could probably come up with a list of 10 to 20 questions people ask, or myths people believe, or mistakes people make or places to start. That's planned content. You probably know some. The other part of the content is what's called demand content. And that's when you put out content. You start to tell the world, hey, I'm helping people learn how to take better pictures of their kids, or I'm helping people lose weight on keto, or I'm helping busy dads get into shape. You know, whatever your niche is like, you just start telling people you're doing it, you start posting content, and as people start to find it, because they will, even if it's 20 people, 50 people.
Speaker 2 (00:41:53) - Imagine 50 people in your living room, listen to you, talk about whatever you talk about. That's a really powerful audience right there. You can learn a lot from them and see what they watch, what they listen to, what they download, what they click on, what they like. And so the 30 things you might post, you know, the first couple of months, you might realize there's five of the pieces of content that people really latched on to. And that starts to give you an idea of what else to keep making for them, but also probably where your first paid course should be is in the content that they're really engaging with. So that's why I say don't rush to make a course, because it's just gonna be a waste of your time, because it might not be what people really want to buy yet. And it's so hard to sell something, no matter how good your copy is to someone, if it's not what they want to buy. The easiest way to make money is to just give people what they want to give you money for.
Speaker 2 (00:42:36) - And you only know that by engaging with them. And you figure this out with your offers to like, you've helped enough guys to realize this is what really gets them results and this is what they really want is this kind of model. And that's what we were talking about that on my show of like giving them everything, the community, they want the group coaching. But some guys also want the one on one and you figured out what they actually want. You start with a hunch, you refine it with research. I think Marie Forleo said. You know, clarity doesn't come by thinking. It comes by engaging, you know, so you got to engage with real people to get clarity on what they want to buy from you. And then when you make your first course, it's going to it's going to sell so much easier because it's exactly what they've loved. And it's probably more of that.
Speaker 3 (00:43:15) - Yeah. See, and that's actually a.
Speaker 1 (00:43:17) - Really workable model I wish I wish I had you actually when I first started, because I kind of fumbled my way through this, but all I had time for was to do the content.
Speaker 1 (00:43:27) - So that's literally all I was focusing on in the early days. It was mostly on social. Back then. I was really inspired by Russell Brunson and so got an email marketing and really drilled that home. But anybody can do that. Like that's only a couple hours of a week to to generate some content. Right. And then can you talk a little bit about the importance of being consistency? Because when being consistent, because when I look at your success online, especially on YouTube, it's it's very there's a trail that's left behind that's very clear, like you've been consistent for a pretty long time. And those rewards continue. I imagine they continue to. To this day.
Speaker 2 (00:44:03) - You know, you're absolutely right. I mean, this came from imagine where I was in 2009, 2010, so much out of my control. I couldn't control that I'd lost my job, I couldn't control the economy we were in, which was way worse than it is right now. I think people forget that. They're like, oh, because it's just recency bias.
Speaker 2 (00:44:19) - We think like, this is so hard now and it is hard. But it was we were on the edge of like the world collapsing. Like people were freaking out. 2008 910. And so I couldn't control that. I was like, certainly people aren't going to want to spend money right now because everyone was freaking out. Losing their homes seemed like the worst time to start a business, is what it seemed like. And I didn't know anything about business at large. I didn't know anything about online business in particular. I wasn't confident as a content creator, if you want, if you want to be encouraged, go look up the Recording Revolution YouTube channel, click on videos and sort by oldest to newest and watch the first couple of videos I made and laugh at me like I.
Speaker 3 (00:44:56) - Look like.
Speaker 2 (00:44:57) - I shot him at nighttime. The only light in the video is behind me, so I'm dark. It doesn't make any sense. And I look like a serial killer because, like, I'm trying to teach and think about what I'm going to say next while talking to the camera.
Speaker 2 (00:45:10) - It was so embarrassing. And just you realize that you're going to be way better than me. And I filmed it on an old camcorder. It wasn't even an HD. So like, go ugly early, right? I have a friend that says go ugly early. Like just start. No one sees it. Like, all they see of me right now is what I'm doing right now. You know, like you've been blessed to be on national media, like I've been on CNBC, also in Forbes and all these places. And it's like like wow. And it's like, bro, just go watch my early stuff. But what I could control and that's what I decided to do, was I felt the Lord was saying, look, there's so much you can't control Graham, but you can't control. Do you show up in your home office, which is just a secondary bedroom, that the baby was screaming on the other side of the door, and so it was not glamorous. Can you show up every day? Can you create content as much as you can, and can you engage with people and help them for free as much as you can? I could control those things.
Speaker 2 (00:45:55) - I couldn't control what content was good. And if you if you make content long enough, you realize that 80% of it just is okay and 20% of it pops and it's probably a smaller percentage than 20, we never know. And so I think that was that habit came out of I'm going to I was so desperate, I was going to latch on. I needed something to control, you know, I felt out of control. I needed something to control. So for me, that was creating content. And I posted three times a week. I wrote two articles a week and one YouTube video a week for four years straight until I started to to test. Could I drop down to two pieces and then one piece? And then the business still grow and that's what I end up doing. It's always been something every week, but that's how it started. And the platforms look for this because think about this. If I'm searching for like recovery in your space and there's a channel that's got some huge videos on it, but they haven't posted in three months.
Speaker 2 (00:46:46) - And then there's your channel or your podcast and it's updated every week. The algorithm is going to say, well, we might serve up both, but we're probably going to favor your channel because you're posting every week because you're doing what we as the platform wants, which is keep pumping out content so we can keep making money on ads and keep eyeballs, because that's what these content platforms are. They're fighting Netflix and Disney Plus. They're fighting for eyeballs. And so they they value content creators who consistently post, but then also your audience think about if you had a hit TV show, whatever you like. Like I grew up watching lost, like in the early 2000. I love that show.
Speaker 3 (00:47:19) - Like, I remember that.
Speaker 2 (00:47:20) - Every week, bro. I needed to see what was next is always a cliffhanger and I need to know what the heck's going on this island. Why is there a polar bear in the tropics? And so like if, if, if the show didn't show up for a couple of weeks, I'd be like, what the heck? Yeah, I'm counting on it as a viewer to be there every Wednesday night or whenever it came on ABC.
Speaker 2 (00:47:36) - And it's like your audience needs to you need to create a rhythm that they even internally can count on, like, oh, Sathiya posting every day or every week or like my podcast every Tuesday, it drops and they don't. No one's paying that much attention to you like you are. They don't care that much, but they know, oh, it's always uploaded. It's always something fresh. And there they will get into that rhythm if you're consistent and that will help you out. And the final thing I'll say about it is, like I said earlier, the business model stacks. Like, you know, Sean Cannell is a friend and he's a brilliant YouTuber. If you want to learn YouTube, like learn from him as well. He's done it really well. But he always likens and I always said this too. And then when he said it, it was like, great. I feel smart because if he said it, I've always believed it is that you think of a YouTube video, let's say, as like an employee that works for you for free 24 over seven and never get sick.
Speaker 2 (00:48:25) - And no offense to our pregnant mommas, never gets pregnant and needs to like, like be like do they always? They'll serve you and like help your business every single day. And so if you're posting a video every week, you're adding a new employee every week who's serving you. So every year you've got 50 new employees. Ten years in, you'll have 500 minimum employees working for you. And these search engines, like YouTube, which it is a search engine, will serve up all the videos. It's not just the newest videos. They'll they'll serve up whatever is relevant, whatever people like. And so you'll get mileage out of a video you posted, like my number one video on the recording. Lucian has over 3 million views, and I think it's how to set up a home recording studio for $350. I filmed it seven years ago.
Speaker 3 (00:49:10) - Wow.
Speaker 2 (00:49:11) - And like, it's still drives probably the majority of my leads for that business today. Talk about efficiency. You can do a video once and maybe it doesn't hit right away.
Speaker 2 (00:49:19) - I've never had viral videos like Go viral, but after 5 to 7 years you could rack up a million, 2 million, 3 million views. I'm in it for the lead gen. I'm in it for the long haul. I'm not in it to become popular on YouTube. That's why you can have a small audience and make great money. And people think, oh, his audience is only a thousand subscribers, he must be sucking. But that guy could be making six figures because it's all about the system on the backend. We're not influencers, we're not doing brand deals. We're a business selling a product, and that product might be coaching or community or course, but we're using these platforms as legion. And that's why consistency is so important, because it helps with the Legion long term.
Speaker 3 (00:49:57) - Yeah man.
Speaker 1 (00:49:58) - That's really, really well said. I want to I want to honor your time. So I'm going to just ask you one last question here. How do you how do you know if you're fulfilled in life.
Speaker 1 (00:50:08) - You know, like because I think everybody, like you said, when I think back to my 20s, I was sharing this on your podcast. You know, my intention was to become a doctor. I lost a bunch of friends to suicide. I want to become a psychiatrist. And I remember thinking, man, if I became a psychiatrist, you know, they made like 250, 300 K a year and I'd be able to take care of my family. And I had thoughts about having helping my parents out and my siblings out. And and I remember I'll share. I don't normally share this, but because you're a recording nurse, you'll appreciate this. But it was probably five years later, and God had totally done a 180 in my life. And so I didn't end up in med school. I wound up kind of taking more of the pastoral route. I was a worship artist, and I just launched my first album, and God had reminded me about my dreams because I had thought, man, when I'm making 300 K a year, I'm going to pay off all my debt.
Speaker 1 (00:50:57) - I'm going to live in a small apartment for another year or two, and all my extra money I'm going to give to like, my family and like whatever, get back to my parents. And so I had my first $1,000. I forget if it was radio royalties, or maybe I did an event or something, and God was like, hey, you need to give that to your family. Like you need to honor that. That promise you made. I was like, hey, I never made a promise. He was like, I know, but, you know, you honor what you said you were going to do. And and so I, you know, I forget how much I gave to each person, but I gave money to my siblings and gave money to my parents. And I remember I remember just being amazed at how much fulfillment I got out of that moment, doing something totally different than what I had kind of ventured out to do five years prior to that. And now, like when I think about the work I'm doing now, I love that I'm helping people, but I've built a good life for my family, and I feel like every day I inched closer towards fulfillment.
Speaker 1 (00:51:46) - But there's been a lot of moments in life where I'm like, man, I'm doing the thing I set out to do. Like the early days of Deep Clean were really painful, you know, trying to find leads and trying to grow. And you're managing this. And my wife was very sick at the time, and we had a bunch of stuff going on. And I feel like fulfillment sometimes is not it's not what we think it is. I think sometimes we think fulfillment is you wake up every day and you're happy and there's no issues. But I also like I look at you, I look at the way you handle yourself and the life you built. And you do strike me as somebody who is who is encroaching that territory. Like you look like you're living a relatively fulfilled life. And I guess my question to you would be, how how do you know that you're living fulfilled?
Speaker 3 (00:52:23) - I love.
Speaker 2 (00:52:24) - This question. I wish we could do a whole episode on this.
Speaker 3 (00:52:27) - Oh, maybe we should.
Speaker 1 (00:52:27) - We'll bring you back when you launch your book, man. We'll talk about it.
Speaker 3 (00:52:30) - Yeah, I would, I.
Speaker 2 (00:52:30) - Would honestly, I'm serious about that because I think this is a this is the question. I think we're all chasing fulfillment. And I think God designed us to chase that to, to, in the best sense of the word, like to be fulfilled. And ultimately we won't be fulfilled until we're fulfilled in Christ. And so because it's the way we were designed, you don't have to believe it, but it's the way I believe you were designed. And so it's going to always be a misalignment until you accept that truth that you're made for your creator. But to your I appreciate it. Like I think things, you know, like anyone else, it's not as pretty on the inside as it is on the outside, you know? And I always tell people like, you might like what I'm doing, but just come hang out with me and my family for a few days and realize that, like, I'm the least favorite person in the household and like, nobody cares about me in my house.
Speaker 3 (00:53:14) - Like they're no one's impressed. And I'm like a side.
Speaker 2 (00:53:17) - Note, I'm a words of affirmation guy, and my wife is not. So she's never says like, great job, babe. Like, I never hear anything like that. It's kind of a funny running joke in our counseling sessions about it. Like, you just say nice things to Graham. She's like.
Speaker 3 (00:53:27) - Okay, fine.
Speaker 2 (00:53:28) - But to this to this question, and I'm glad you brought up giving. I really love that story. Thanks for sharing that story about your heart of wanting to, like, make the money, pay off the debt, save up extra money so you could bless your family. Giving is has been a huge part of our our journey as a couple. Shay and I and God's done some incredible things again. We could do a whole episode on that as well, but so much so that I gave a Ted talk this year about giving. And it's called Why givers are Happier and Have Less Money stressed. And it's like my secular it's the secular audience.
Speaker 2 (00:54:00) - Ted is very, very particular about religious stuff. So it's my yeah, my physiological science base backed take on why you should be a giver and the benefits you get. But there's so many more spiritual benefits to giving. Like just like giving has been the best business strategy, the best fulfillment strategy. But to that point, the most fun we've ever had with money is giving it away. So much so that like we've been challenged to continue to graze our giving. And I talk about this in the Ted talk, and I only share it because I feel like giving, especially in the church and the Christian context is not talked about enough. It's expected, but no one actually talks about how much they're giving because of that verse about don't let your right hand know what your left hand is doing when Jesus is talking about giving. And there's some debate about that, and I feel like God's sort of given me permission personally to share more of our giving journey, because I feel like giving is also one of the the, the gifts of the spirit, or at least one of the things that Paul talks about in the scriptures about people are wired to be givers.
Speaker 2 (00:55:01) - And if you're a giver, you should give. And it's like we some of the body, many parts different, different things. And so giving is one that's very needed. I mean, I don't know about a single church or nonprofit that doesn't need givers or donors, whatever you want to call them. And yet in the church context, no one is allowed to model giving because it's all supposed to be secret. And if the problem with that is if I can model how to love my wife, I can model my prayer life, I can model service, and then a younger generation can see that in a pastor or someone in the church and be like, I want to be like him, or I want to be like her. But if if it's supposed to be secret you're giving, then no one models it. No one sees it, so no one can aspire to it. And the people who have the gift of giving. And I think we're all meant to be givers. And I think we all benefit from giving.
Speaker 2 (00:55:41) - But some people are truly meant to be a giver. They never have an example of which to follow. And so I've been very vocal about our giving. Not to brag, because I just feel like it's part of my story. So like last summer, my dream, my dream was to get to a point where we were giving half of everything we made away. And so I thought that was like, when I'm in my 50 or 60s, we'll like inch up to that. And last summer I was in Puerto Rico with a family, and literally God told me, now's the time. Get to 50% now. Wow. And we were we were at 30% at the time. And I was like, okay. And so that changed a lot of things. Like our investments dropped. I mean, like my income didn't just like double overnight, but like it was we're funneling more to giving. And so now we've committed to giving half of everything we make away. And that was like my dream number.
Speaker 2 (00:56:25) - Like some people have like net worth goals, like I've always had a percentage of profit that I wanted to give away from day one that was 50. And so we hit that. And so I say all that to say that when you like and it doesn't take much money. So I'm going to use numbers that might seem large, but like look, it doesn't, you know, it doesn't take much money. And there's so many studies on this and I talk about them in my TedTalk about even studies on giving $5, whether you spend it on yourself or what they call prosocial spending, which is you use it to give to somebody else or buy them a meal, you get more endorphin hit, more dopamine hit when you when you give the money away. But so the amount doesn't matter. They proven this. But when you can like pay for someone's adoption or buy someone a car who can't afford a car who's struggling, or pay off student loan debt, or help somebody get retired, like pay off somebody's house.
Speaker 2 (00:57:11) - These are all things that like we've done in like the house, one where like about to do like like all these things like we help pay for a down payment for somebody's house. Like they were in a situation where they live together like multi-generation as a family. They can't afford rent because they're so they're so poor. And they were getting kicked out of the house and the rent. And Tampa, like everyone else, has just been going up. And it was actually cheaper if they could buy a house, but they didn't have enough of a down payment. So we were able to help pay for their down payment. Like when you do those things, it gives you so much more fulfillment and joy than adding an extra $100,000 to my investments, or buying another rental property or whatever it would be. And so that sounds nice and cliche, but it's really true for Shay and I. And so we've committed to giving. And so when you talk about fulfillment, my mind goes to I want to make as much money as I possibly can within living my values.
Speaker 2 (00:58:00) - And a lot of that is not working very many hours. So I'm willing to say no to more money. I'm willing to say no to a lot of complexity because one of my values is simplicity. So I won't have the biggest team in the world. I won't grow the fastest. So I have some limitations, but I want to make as much as possible unashamed about making money, because it gives me the opportunity to funnel as much as I can into people's lives, organizations, lives, my churches, lives like the people that I know. They're strangers. So to me, that's the most fun. Like, I don't need more money I could spend. There's fun things I could buy, and I have value experiences. So typically I'd probably spend it on travel and staying in nice places and eating good food. Like, I valued those things. Yeah, going to concerts and having fun experiences. But outside of that, it's like, God, how can I make as much money as possible while living my values so that I can funnel it out? And like, I love that the line from Elgie Letourneau, who was just a brilliant business guy in like, the construction space, he kind of had like a competitor to caterpillar.
Speaker 2 (00:59:03) - They make like, you know, earthmoving equipment, like construction site equipment. Yeah. He was famous for reverse tithing. He lived off of 10% and gave 90%.
Speaker 3 (00:59:11) - Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (00:59:12) - And he had this great line of like I keep shoveling the money out, but God keeps shoveling it back in and he has a bigger shovel. And I have found that to be true. Like, wow, you're not going to struggle when you give, but it's the most fun and talk about purpose and significance. Like I've gotten bored in my businesses. You hit a point where like, this is too easy and and I know it sounds like a nice problem to have, and that's why it's hard to talk about it with even my friends or normal people. But when you've gotten in business and you've had some success, you feel like you realize this circle is very small, but it's very real. Like I feel bored and then I feel guilty and ashamed for that because I know I've got it so good. And when I'm bored, I can wander.
Speaker 2 (00:59:49) - And that's not good. And all the things that you're helping guys with, and it's like, I want more significance and God gives me new business ideas or new people. He wants me to help or like, hey, I'm going to bless you like, so that you can give more money away. Like he will give me something to focus on and that's what gives me fulfillment. If I don't press into those things. And I'm being very honest here, like a couple of years ago, I almost thought about just retiring. I was like, I'm 36 at the time. I was like, I should just retire early and like, just chill. And I was telling everybody, I think I'm going to actually do this. And they're like, bro, you're going to get so bored. But God was like, bro, no. Instead of that, why don't we ramp it up and do more incredible things and impact more people and watch you be more fulfilled while you do it?
Speaker 3 (01:00:31) - Man, oh man, that's so good.
Speaker 1 (01:00:33) - Yeah, we will have you back. We'll have to do it. And once rebel comes out, maybe we can kind of double those things up. But this has been amazing, Grant, for people who do want to find out what you're up to. Want to see what you're what you're doing. What's the best way for them to track you down?
Speaker 2 (01:00:46) - Yeah, man. So two two things. One is there's the podcast, The Graham Cochrane Show. It's also a YouTube channel if you just want the weekly content. I hang out on Instagram a little bit at the Graham Cochrane, but if you liked the business model we talked about and like those four pillars kind of made sense. If you want to like dive deeper into that. I have a workshop. It's 100% free. I do pitch a course at the end. You don't have to buy it, but the workshop is about 45 minutes and it goes really in depth on those four pillars and like how you could build a business and it's free.
Speaker 2 (01:01:16) - Just go to Graham cochrane.com/gift and you can opt in for that there. You'll get me on my email list. And like I said I pitch a course at the end that goes even deeper. But I've had students build like a $45,000 launch off of the free training. I try to just like, let you try it out and see for yourself to see if it makes sense for you. So if that tickles your fancy, go dive into that.
Speaker 3 (01:01:35) - Okay?
Speaker 1 (01:01:36) - Yeah, we'll put links to all of that in the show notes. In the meantime. Man, I'm so glad we finally met. We finally did these interviews. It's been such a treat. Thank you for your time today, dude.
Speaker 2 (01:01:46) - Thank you man, you're the man. Keep it up.
Speaker 1 (01:01:47) - All right. Well, I told you, man, Graham is legit. He's the real guy. I think there's a lot that we can learn and gain from him. Make sure you go to his website. Graham cochrane.com/gift. We have put that link in the show notes for you guys.
Speaker 1 (01:02:03) - Again go check it out at your earliest convenience. And look if you're listening to this and maybe God's got a call in your life to make better money to extend his kingdom, maybe it's to to be a businessman and an entrepreneur, and to create value in the marketplace and solutions that make the world a better place. But you know that you are ultimately always going to be held back by your struggle with pornography. Look, I don't want that for you. Graham doesn't want that for you. None of us want that for you. And one of the easiest ways for you to step into the things God's called you to is to eliminate sexual sin from your life. It would be a shame for you to step into these things, only to be later exposed, or to have this thing blow up in your face and to lose it all. And we've seen that happen with our clients before, and I'm trying to help you avoid that. So if you if you look at the show notes, there's actually a link for you to book a call with somebody on our team.
Speaker 1 (01:02:54) - And look, this isn't for everybody. But if you are in that place where you're like, Sathya, I know I need to get free, I know it's time. Enough is enough. Look, I just want to encourage you, brother. Do not waste another minute, okay? Now's your chance. Click the link in the show notes. That will take you to schedule a call with someone on our team. And we'll just have an honest conversation to see if what we have going on here is actually a good fit for you. And if it is, of course, then we can talk about working together. And if it's not, no harm, no foul. At least you took one step closer to identifying a solution that's going to work for you. And look, the worst thing that you could do is you listen to this episode and do nothing with it. So make sure you take some sort of action today, my friend. In the meantime, I wish all of you guys an incredible day.
Speaker 1 (01:03:34) - Stay clean. We'll talk soon. Bye bye. Hey, everybody, it's Thea again. Thanks for listening to Unleash the Man Within. I wanted to take a quick moment to let you know about a free e-book that I wrote for you, called The Ultimate Guide to Porn Recovery. It provides a basic framework for the recovery process and a few of my top tips completely free of charge. You can get it now at WW Waltman Recovery guide.com. That's w w w dot alternate recovery guide. Com. Now if you've been impacted by the podcast and you want to show some support in less than 60s, there are three ways you can do that. First, you can leave a rating or review on your podcast platform. This lets people like you know that the content here is valuable. Secondly, you can share this episode with someone in your life that might benefit from the content. If you're passionate about helping other people experience freedom and success in their lives, this is one of the easiest ways to do that. And lastly, you can subscribe.
Speaker 1 (01:04:35) - I personally only listen to the podcast that I subscribe to. If you're seeking daily encouragement, guidance, and insight in your recovery journey, I highly recommend subscribing to Unleash the Man Within. Thanks for listening. I look forward to connecting with you very, very soon.
Speaker 4 (01:04:51) - The information, opinions and recommendations presented in this podcast by Sathiya Sam and his guests are for general information only and should not be considered medical, clinical or any other form of professional advice. Any reliance on the information provided is done at your own risk.
