Speaker 1 (00:00:00) - Okay, Well, I'm here with my main man, Chris Borges. And you are no stranger to the family here. You and Tara were on the podcast a little while back, and you've also done a great talk with my clients. And and I just appreciate what you're doing, man. You guys are pioneering something I think really special. There's a great infusion of disc profiles and biblical principles. You're an ordained pastor, and then just like general knowledge or principles about healthy relationships and marriage. So I love what you're doing. So welcome to the show, man. It's good to have you here. Thank you. Thank you for having us, man. You are doing this.
Speaker 2 (00:00:35) - This is just a a space that is very much needed, especially within marriages. So thank you for all of what you're doing is that you are a world changer. And thank you for so much for taking this. This is a difficult topic. And you're heading it. You're hitting it straight on. So thank you for doing that.
Speaker 1 (00:00:52) - Oh, that's really kind. And I feel the same way about you and Tara and what you guys are up to. And Tara is amazing. We had a really good interview the last time you were both on, but I wanted to hit the husband angle today. I want to really go after it. We'll dive in a little bit deeper and I think it's going to be a lot of fun. The one thing that I don't even know if we touched on this in the last interview, but you and Tara are disc certified to administer the disc profile. And you guys have helped a lot. And I you know, we did a couple of sessions with you guys. It was really insightful to do our profiles and talk about sort of the obvious areas of friction. And I know, I know people might be wondering like, what's the connection here? Like personality profiles, you know, marriage coaching and consulting. But you guys have seemed to like I mean, you guys are really put a stake in the ground.
Speaker 1 (00:01:39) - Like, if you're going to work with us, you got to get this stuff figured out with the disc profile because it seems like that's sort of the bedrock of everything. Can you just let's start there. Like, why is that so important to you guys?
Speaker 2 (00:01:49) - Yeah. So the disk is an acronym. The disk D for dominant. I have a little charity. Don't know if you can see it. These are dominant. Highest for inspiring s is for supportive and C is for cautious. And the reason why we have gone to the disk, you know, and I have been through the wringer when it comes to marriage. We've tried them all the anagrams, the Myers-Briggs, the string finders And what we've liked about the disk is it allows you to understand yourself and your spouse and give you tools to be able to communicate effectively, you know, because 90% get that 90% of all couples are exactly the opposite. And then we're no different. Me and our exact or 100% opposite. So when we found the disk, it really was our first it was our first spotlight on being self aware or one of the first because it it should.
Speaker 2 (00:02:46) - We went down the alley of triggers and boundaries and patterns, but it all pointed to this the disk we respond to other people we we have triggers according to how we're wired. Do you see Proverbs 25 two talks about where it's the it's the privilege of of God to conceal things, but it's the privilege of us, the kings, to be able to reveal them. And so that's what we're doing. That's what we're doing with the disk model of human behavior. So again, you know why we chose a disk. It allows us to understand ourselves, understands each other and gives us the tools to be able to communicate. But but here's the deal. Here's what the disk is all about. The disk allows you to not pigeonhole you, not label you, but give you the tools to be able to help communicate effectively. Because isn't that the because what I found is that, you know, for me and permission to be real here, we're having a due time.
Speaker 1 (00:03:50) - Fire away. Amen.
Speaker 2 (00:03:52) - So permission to be real? I struggle with porn.
Speaker 2 (00:03:56) - I was I was traveling on the road for weeks out of four out of a month. And yes, I was called the weekend where it did that for years. But I was running. I didn't understand myself. I didn't understand Tara, because there was so much pain in the in the ability for us to connect. I just got on a plane whether I needed to or not. I, I found reasons to be able to travel. And so what I would do is I would go to these hotels and and surf the Internet and surf surf bad movies. And so it was just maddening until until this until I understood myself a little bit more why I run. Because see, in a nutshell, if we're being real here in a nutshell, when we don't when couples don't connect, I'll get this. This is probably the most important piece of this whole of this whole discussion. When couples don't connect. When there's a disconnect, when they're not connected, sort of like, you know, like when you're plugging something into a wall and there's that disconnection know there's no electric in in that whatever you're plugging in, there's no electric.
Speaker 2 (00:05:05) - There's no electric in a marriage. We will run to counterfeit affections. You will receive pleasure. And this is what I found. What I was doing in those hotel rooms I was running because I didn't understand myself. I didn't understand. I was I wasn't connecting with Tara. And because, like I said, 90% of all couples are exactly opposite. It's not that we fall out of love. I loved. If I wasn't connecting. I didn't understand her. After the years go by, you know, at first, you know, it's great. We don't understand why we are attracted to the opposite. But we are. You know, I had something that she had. She wanted and. And she had something that I wanted. We didn't know it. But then after some for some people, two weeks for us it was ten years. We just didn't understand each other. And that was the big the reason why I ran to that to that. The porn addiction. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:06:05) - Yeah. Well, okay.
Speaker 1 (00:06:06) - I mean, so many different points here that I imagine most of our audience resonates with. The first is that you marry your opposite opposites attract. Right. And you said 90% are complete opposite. I'm guessing that's by their disc profile. Like they're right. Like they're basically inverses of each other, which makes perfect sense to me. And I imagine the other 10%, there's still a lot of differences, and that's just the nature of relationships. So it's interesting that basically by getting into more intimate relationships, you are setting yourself up for conflict. Like it literally comes part and parcel. And most of us, especially like when we're young, early in marriage, we don't have the tools and the skill sets to handle that level of conflict. Like I consider myself to be pretty decent at conflict resolution. I was not ready for the conflict resolution that was required in marriage. Like I really had to up my game and digging that stuff way more than ever before. And now I'm kind of I'm connecting dots or I'm reading between the lines.
Speaker 1 (00:07:02) - But it sounds to me like if people can't learn to manage their differences, especially in a relationship, what happens is it leads to disconnection. And where there's disconnection, people will always cope one way or the other, and sometimes that's healthy. Unfortunately, most times it's not. And maybe the number one go to in coping with relationship distress is pornography. Did I did I summarize that accurately? Chris? Am I doing okay so far?
Speaker 2 (00:07:27) - Yeah, you're doing great. And that's exactly right. We'll run to something we call it I call it counterfeit affection, whether it's born, whether it's alcohol, whether it's some addiction. We will run every time. Because when there's no purpose, when there's no connection. We're going to run the pleasure.
Speaker 1 (00:07:43) - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So for you, now that you've shared your own story, I can't help but ask. So you you had this struggle, like you said, the weekend warrior on the road most of the week. And again, you can just see how that's a recipe for all kinds of challenges.
Speaker 1 (00:08:02) - Did the Tar find out? Did you come clean? How did that whole process go about?
Speaker 2 (00:08:08) - Yeah, I had to come clean and I just I admitted to her and, you know, you know, one of the things I would do because this was in the early 2000 when before cell phones and it was so accessible, I would actually because I did come clean, I said, look, Tara, this is what's going on. I actually would call up the hotel that I was staying at. And remove the TV because I knew it was a temptation for me.
Speaker 1 (00:08:32) - Wow.
Speaker 2 (00:08:33) - I would have them removed. And that was a painting of, you know what? For people to have to have the maintenance people to go in and remove the TV. I mean, these were just flat screens. These were the big honking.
Speaker 1 (00:08:45) - Oh, the big CRT. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:08:47) - I had to get a cart to carry it out.
Speaker 1 (00:08:49) - So.
Speaker 2 (00:08:51) - Yeah, so we had to come clean. And then that's that's really, really coming clean was really the the breakthrough that I needed.
Speaker 2 (00:08:59) - And when we had that honest discussion, that's okay. Then we could actually solve the problem.
Speaker 1 (00:09:06) - Yeah. So sorry. I'm sorry. I just want to pause you for a second, because I'm. You're glossing over something that I think is really important. I tell guys that when you're married, if you're struggling with porn, there's only two ways out of this. You either confess or you get caught. Right. Choice is yours. Can you. Can you just. Just so that they can hear real, real time from someone who's not Sathiya. What was Tara's response when you did confess? Because it's not all Daisies and Roses. They're not like, Oh, thank you so much. I'm glad you told me. And now I can trust you again. But can you just paint us a picture? And why did she decide to stick around? Why did she not leave you when you confess your error?
Speaker 2 (00:09:46) - Well, she. She appreciated the honesty and she realized that, you know, we all have struggles and we all have issues.
Speaker 2 (00:09:53) - And once we. Okay, so there was an evolution of understanding for her. And initially she was hurt, Right? But initially she was like, why wasn't I good enough? Why wasn't I? It's why were we not connecting? And so so with that, though, she decided to stay because that was the commitment. You know, we we say that commitment is like like a high wire act when someone's practicing when when the person in the high wire and they're practicing, there's a safety net. They know that I'm not going to fall to my death if I try this death defying act because I know the safety net is there. And that's what commitment is about. You know, whether she stayed because she loved me or whether maybe she had her issues. We all have issues. And so we once we come to that realization, it allows grace to come in and to cover it, because God exposes the weaknesses so that his grace can overpower it.
Speaker 1 (00:10:58) - Mm.
Speaker 2 (00:10:59) - Yeah. And so that's what really happened in that situation is that Grace came in and grace for her to be able to stick through this grace for me to be able to overcome it, because once once it was exposed.
Speaker 2 (00:11:14) - Then, then then you can actually then your energy is now stopping on trying to hide it. Your energy is now solving the problem. This is why I love what you're doing, because it's the problem. And so and because the energy is now, I'm not going to hide it. I'm going to hide it. I'm going to I'm not going to tell anyone. I'm not I'm going to I'm going to clear out my cash. I'm going to whatever the phone. I'm there's just so much mental space and so much energy and so much thought that goes in so much deceitfulness. Just come clean.
Speaker 1 (00:11:48) - Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:11:49) - Clean. And and so when that happened, Tara just. She had options. She could have said, Hey, yeah, I got this. But she chose this day because, you know, she's had her issues and B, she Grace came in. Grace, She understood me that, you know, the way I approached it wasn't I didn't approach it. It was her fault. It was all on me.
Speaker 2 (00:12:12) - Yeah. When I. Yeah, it was on me. I didn't approach it. This is all your fault. You know, we can play the blame game. But here's the deal with that blame game. When when you blame other people, you're giving away all of the power in your relationship to that other person. And that's not healthy. You're giving away all of your power when you when you say it's. Well, I, I looked at this stuff because my wife wasn't wasn't there for me or I was looking at my stuff. I was looking at this stuff because I was nervous. I was stressed. I was traveling. No, no, bro. It was all me. Yeah, it was on me. On me. Because when there's something's broken inside of me, we like going to say, like when it comes to relationship connection is that if we play the blame game when we're offended, now get this, when we're offended, it's not because of what other people say. If something's broken inside of here, it's just like important when you're looking at something, it's not because of what other people are doing or what there's something is broken in here.
Speaker 2 (00:13:19) - Yeah. Fix.
Speaker 1 (00:13:21) - Yeah. Yeah. That's so good, man. So I know we could talk about because I hear what you're saying, which is that sort of at the best of all, this is the disconnection, right? Like, I think if we were in fluid, dynamic, healthy connections with each other, with God 24 over seven, you would see the porn viewership plummet. You would see divorce rates decline. Like I think we know that. And I think a lot of people like we always talk about like, you know, what are the typical fights about finances, raising kids, handling in-laws, religion. Right. Politics Like you can, you know, like these are pretty predictable. But I think what I like about your guys approach is like it's not like, okay, how do we get you to budget and get on the same page about finances or whatever? Like the disk profile sounds a lot more causal so that it's like no matter what issue you're talking about, if you guys are on completely opposite ends of the spectrum, if you have some of these tools and resources, you can actually work through them.
Speaker 1 (00:14:19) - So can you give us an example of whether it's you and Tara or maybe couples you've worked with where here are their desc personality profiles? They're clearly opposites or they clearly have these obvious points of friction. And here's how they were able to use their profiles and work through a subject like finances or raising kids that otherwise would have been dicey.
Speaker 2 (00:14:40) - Yeah, that's such a good question. So the okay, I'm going to use us because we're at the epitome of of we're the we're the examples of total opposites. So I'm in this profile. Remember, the D is for dominant bias, for inspiring S is for supportive and C is for cautious. Okay. He's in the CS are task oriented, the A's and the S's are people oriented. So I'm up here I I'm people oriented. Tara is a C she's task oriented and we are the exact opposite. So here's a very good case in point. You know, in the morning time, you know, I have lots of energy. I've been up since like this morning.
Speaker 2 (00:15:23) - I was up since 230 figuring things out.
Speaker 1 (00:15:27) - 230?
Speaker 2 (00:15:28) - Yes. Oh, my gosh. I know. But but see, that's the thing. I wake up. I already have by the time breakfast for other people. It's lunch time for me. But but here's the.
Speaker 1 (00:15:40) - That's like Mark Wahlberg stuff. I'm impressed. I know that about you.
Speaker 2 (00:15:45) - Suffice to say that in the morning time, if I come to Tara with all of my energy, all of my great ideas, all my hype, and like, Hey, let's go, come on in, motivation, because this is what an eye does. Now I'm to slow it down here. As you can see, I'm demonstrating to you. What I have to do in the mornings. Yeah, I'm in the morning time because she's in a sea. She's cautious. She's more reserved. I'm more outgoing. Right. And so because of that, if I come to her with one of my brilliant ideas in the morning time, with all my energy, with all my hype, all of my high fives, it's not going to go well for me.
Speaker 2 (00:16:29) - So I have to adapt. I adapt to her. I don't lose myself. That's the key. I'm not losing. I'm still high. I still have high energy. But I'm choosing. Now, get this, I'm choosing to adapt because I love her. I want the connection. Yeah. It's easy for me to talk to her in a manner that is right for me. That's natural for me. It's natural for me to have I energy. It's natural for me to be optimistic. It's natural for me to give high fives and to get people motivated. It's natural for me to be optimistic, but it's not natural for me to slow down. If I come to her with my with my facts, I get this. This is so important if I come because this is this is the reality of how you can connect. If I can come to her in the morning time with my facts and my figures after I've had one of these brilliant ideas about the company, if I come to her with that, she's going to say, Wow.
Speaker 2 (00:17:33) - That's awesome. I now trust you because remember, the dynasties are task oriented and the eyes, in essence, are people oriented. So for her to she has to trust me to like me.
Speaker 1 (00:17:49) - I have to like, wow, trust her. Oh, wow. Okay.
Speaker 2 (00:17:53) - And so because of that, how do I gain her trust? That's my role. That's on me. I'm the spiritual leader that's on me. I can't blame her for not being me, so I have to gain her trust. So what do I do in the mornings? I slow down. And in the mornings, if I have a great idea, I have to come to her with research, with an analysis, with facts, with figures. And when I do that. It builds a connection. Because intimacy doesn't start in the bedroom. It starts at the breakfast table.
Speaker 1 (00:18:32) - Yeah. Wow. Okay, that's a word, man. So. So she has to. To trust you to like you. And the way she trusts you is by getting communication at her level, which is more facts and figures or things that speak to that task oriented part of her.
Speaker 1 (00:18:51) - And once she gets that, then she trusts you. And because she trusts you, therefore she likes you. And your personality profile is the opposite. So you like the ideas, the creativity that gets you excited, that makes you like someone else. And because you like them, you trust them.
Speaker 2 (00:19:07) - Yes. In order for her now. Now for her to gain my trust, I have to like her. Well, how do you. How do I like her? I have to have a warm environment. I have to see her smile. She practiced this. She absolutely.
Speaker 1 (00:19:22) - Practices.
Speaker 2 (00:19:24) - In the mirror.
Speaker 1 (00:19:26) - Smile.
Speaker 2 (00:19:27) - Because that's what I like. I like to know that she likes me, that she touches me, that she she's into me. That she's a warm, friendly environment. She's going to raise up her her, her speed a little bit so that I will like her. Yeah. When I like. Then I will trust her. But if she's never smiling, if she's always about facts and figures, I'm not going to know she likes me or not like you.
Speaker 2 (00:19:55) - Do you? Are you into me? Do you even like me? I talked to a guy just the other day. He can't stand his wife. I'm like, Bro, did you. Were you like that when you were first married? All know. Like you didn't fall in love with her. And I went through this whole scenario, and. And he was, like, floored, mind blown, because it's so simple. It's so simple. We miss it. It's so simple. We miss it. We need to be more psychological. Well, you know, how about triggers and how about patterns? And how about boundaries? Well, this is where we went down in our coaching business and our helping couples get their get their relief is thinking that we had to have something more psychological. Bro, the Bible talks about it. Come to me all the little. You have to have childlike faith. He keeps it simple. Just be a child. Mm. And so that's what we do. We help people understand through the model of human behavior, how to connect.
Speaker 2 (00:21:00) - And when that happens, there won't be a reason.
Speaker 1 (00:21:04) - Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:21:05) - For men to go outside for pleasure or whatever, because now they feel valued. They feel heard. They feel understood. Both of us in that scenario that I just gave, where I slow down and I have facts and figures and when she speeds up and and smiles, then we're both feeling valued. We're both feeling heard. We're both feeling understood. And when that happens, there's no need.
Speaker 1 (00:21:30) - There's no man That's so good. It's so interesting. This has been a big learning curve for me. And marriage is I, I came in, I came in with like a sibling paradox. So with your siblings, you know, it's like, well, if I do it this way, you have to do it too. Or like, the rules are like kind of the similar, the same because you're being raised by the same parents. So I had that paradigm like, this is the household. Like somehow the rules are dictated and then everybody follows the same rules.
Speaker 1 (00:22:00) - And one of the hardest things in marriage for me has been learning that. And I operate by different rules, right? We're different people. We have different upbringings. And those paradigms that exist within our psyche and our personas, they're they're completely different. So what you're giving here is actually a great example of that, of like, I would be the person of I have to trust you and then I like you for sure. And I think naturally we would assume that to be the same. Like, I don't know if you ever did that. I don't know if you assume that Tara was just wired the same way. And so we tend to speak then to we speak our languages to that person. So I remember I used to try to do that, right? I used to try to get I would show that I'm trustworthy. Therefore, I assume she liked me and I was not getting traction. So but I've never heard this language before. So this is really helpful. It's giving me some some new concepts here to sort of articulate that dynamic a bit.
Speaker 1 (00:22:52) - Let me ask you like, so Chris, when when when Tara is maybe she's having a tough day and she's not she's not really giving off the vibe of like, I like you, you know, she's not really speaking to that thing. Um, this is the one thing that I've seen people do with personality tests that I kind of despise is that it's like, Oh, well, you're not doing your part. You're the, you're the see in the relationship and you know, I'm a D and you should or, you know, I'm an I and you should be, you know, whatever, whatever. If you're not going to do your part, I'm not going to do mine either. And we all know how. That's just exacerbating the dysfunction. How do you guys how do you guys use these tools to actually improve their connection on those on those days when maybe the other partner is not holding up their end of the deal or is having a tough day or, you know, whatever, what do you guys need to do to really dig in and man up and be the bigger person in those moments when it's really quite challenging?
Speaker 2 (00:23:47) - Yeah, that's such a good question.
Speaker 2 (00:23:49) - I get this all the time. I get it actually from a lot of the D men because they're dominant. Yes. The question is that why don't why do I have the change? Why do I have to adapt? Why didn't she have to adapt? You know, And so so here it is. And this is where it's going to be a little brutal. It's going to be this is the reality of it all. If two people do nothing or two people don't change, nothing's going to change. Right? It's our role as men to be the spiritual leaders of our home. We are to be ambassadors for Christ. Second. 520. How am I going to show Tara? God. By. By putting conditions on her, by you know, if you're not going to do this well, and I'm not going to do this. No. Someone you know, we have a conflict cycle wheel and we have two points where you can get off this wheel. And this wheel is is is where she can get off or I can get off one of them.
Speaker 2 (00:24:51) - One of us have to get off or we're going to have conflict. We're going to be yelling, screaming, fighting. And that's not going to go well for any of us. So we have a choice to be able to say, I'm going to be the bigger person. Somebody has to be in control. And what I say to you, answer your question, is that because we're the spiritual leader, we have to be in control. It doesn't seem fair. Asked Jesus if it was fair as he took all those beatings for all of us. It wasn't fair for him. He did it because he loved people. You love your wife. It doesn't seem fair if or maybe it does, you know, they're having a bad day. It's sympathy, you know. One of the things that I'm. That helps me is that is empathy. It's the number one StrengthsFinder that I have is empathy is being able to put yourself here's the here's the key. The key is there's so many keys here. Being able to put yourself in their shoes, see life through their perspective.
Speaker 2 (00:25:55) - And when you can do that, then then you can adjust. You can adapt. It's it's not about you. It's not about selfishness. It's about this is the practical way. Of how you can incorporate First Corinthians chapter 13, verses four through seven. The Love Chapter. How is it? Love is patient. Love is kind. Love does not keep the records of wrong. This is where this is the practical tools of how you do that. When you can understand that tar is exactly opposite. And it's my role. To show her God no matter what. If she punches me in the face, if she's had a bad day, if she's yells at me, screams at me. Doesn't matter. Yeah, but he has to take the initiative. And because we're the men of the household. It all starts with me. Yeah, you know it. Yeah. It has to start with someone. And so I have chosen. In my life, in our relationship, to be that person, to be that bigger person.
Speaker 2 (00:27:00) - And so that's just a choice that we have to make, all of us. That's good.
Speaker 1 (00:27:03) - That's really good. You said something earlier. You said intimacy starts at the breakfast table, not the bedroom. And I like where you're going with that. I've told this story before, but when Oma and I were first married, like we'd been married two weeks and we went on a road trip down to Nashville for another friend's wedding. Wait, there was like a group of eight of us and we were the only married couple. There was another couple that had been dating for a long time and then a bunch of single guys and a couple single girls. And we stayed at this big Airbnb and we were all getting ready for the wedding. So, you know, the guys are putting on their suits and the girls are doing their hair and putting on their dresses. And Shalamar popped into the room just for like 20s. And she was like, Hey, babe, how do I look? And I looked at her and I was like, Babe, you look amazing.
Speaker 1 (00:27:45) - Wow. And she had a smile on her face. And she walks back into the room and I just kind of nudged the guy beside me. I said, He see that? He's like, Yeah. I'm like, That's foreplay. And they burst out laughing. You know, They thought it was so funny. But I was making a point, you know, the point I was making is that, like, these little things all matter. And I think guys, guys sometimes get so focused on the act itself of sex that they forget everything is connected, especially for women. Everything else is connected. The way you've been treating her the last week, you know, she may not she may not consciously remember it, but trust me, her heart is is keeping track of all this stuff and all that leads to these different kind of moments. And I'm wondering if we can get maybe a bit practical and tactical with the audience. Do you have anything in particular like you mentioned, you know, really catering your temperament in the mornings so that she's not getting bombarded by the hurricane? That is Chris Borges of energy and excitement and inspiration.
Speaker 1 (00:28:41) - There's a place for that, for sure. And you've learned to kind of find the right places so that she feels like you're matching her level. Are there other practical things that guys can do on a day to day or week to week basis that put deposits in the account so that when the moments do arise and and sexual activity is on the table, that, you know, there's there's, I guess a little bit of equity in the relationship, so to speak, that they're pulling from rather than, you know, it's just like I'm horny, let's do it Now. Is there anything practical that maybe guys wouldn't expect that can actually really help in this area?
Speaker 2 (00:29:17) - Yeah, absolutely. You know, we go through a lot with our couples. We help couples understand. Okay, so Proverbs 1821 talks about death and life from the power of the tongue. That is so true. So what that means is that we're speaking death, but we're speaking life, right? And so the number one thing I would say is that you can't be selfish.
Speaker 2 (00:29:41) - You can't be selfish. I can't be selfish. No one can be selfish in this arena. It's Ephesians 525 says, For husbands to love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself up. So with that mentality, I have learned the secrets to be able to say, okay or program helps couples be able to, you know, put in words that they would have. Like how do you communicate, how do you restore, how do you spend money? And so practically, you know, what I found is that how do you have because see, what I have what we've discovered is that in order to have a healthy, healthy relationship, healthy relationship is this. Being able to talk about any topic. Without offense and without fear. And so what that means, in order to do that, you have to be able to create a good, healthy environment to have that first section, to have a conversation. Yeah. Because as you know, as that the you can't if you have a flat tire or.
Speaker 2 (00:30:56) - Yes, sir. I'm sure there's some things you can control. But if you change them but if you run over a nail but you have a new tire or an old tire, it's going to pop. And so there are so many things in life that we can't control. There's so many things, but what we can control. And here's the encouragement is the environment to have a healthy conversation. For example, I like a warm, friendly environment. I don't want to be a situation where I feel someone doesn't like me If we're going to if me and two are going to have a warm a good conversation, she's going to come with me and we can and we we go through this with couples. How do you like to have a healthy conversation? What's your communication style? She likes, you know, more direct the facts and figures that we've talked about. I like to have more friendly. So when we adapt to each other's environment, then we can have a healthy conversation. And the goal here is to become unavoidable.
Speaker 1 (00:32:03) - Wow.
Speaker 2 (00:32:04) - Because we know a fence happens, people will get well, you said this and that and we get what's triggered, you know, and that fancy word. But it's because there's something broken inside of here. And so when we understand that through the disc model of human behavior and understand that that's the first exposure. Oh, man, there's some stuff I got to get rid of because I don't want to be offended. I don't want to have fear. I fear keeps me. And I did this for many years, shove things underneath the rug. Don't talk about it, because then I have a two headed monster rather than one headed monster. I don't want that. So. So, yeah, so a practical way is being able to say, okay, here's a good healthy, here's how she likes to be communicated, here's how I like to be communicated with. And when you can understand that, when you can put a framework. Around that. Then you can have success in that's what it's all about is having success and be able to have these healthy connections, to be able to, you know, to have healthy relationships.
Speaker 1 (00:33:07) - That's fantastic. Yeah, that's a that's a really good response. And I think, yeah, it's a it's a work in progress, right? Like nobody, nobody nails this stuff and figures it out. So remind me now, how long have you and Tara been married?
Speaker 2 (00:33:21) - We'll be 31 years in September. On September 19th. Okay.
Speaker 1 (00:33:27) - Okay, cool. So early. Congratulations. Because it's it's early August here at the time of this recording. I guess one of my questions, one thing I've always found very valuable is asking people about the stuff that they're thinking about that are further ahead, further down the line. And so you and I have gleaned from some amazing entrepreneurs, right? And the people that come and speak to us about their business there are further ahead than us. So it's always helpful to hear the stuff that they think about and what are they concerned with and whatever. I guess I'm curious. So you and Tara about to hit 31 years. You just celebrated a huge milestone this past year, reaching 30 years.
Speaker 1 (00:34:00) - What are the kinds of things that you guys talk through these days? Work through what are the areas that what are the things that you have to work on in a marriage when you're around this 30 year mark? Because, you know, Salma and I are still we're still young ones over here, you know, three and a half, almost four years, it'll be September 8th for us is four years. And yeah, I just I don't know, I guess I'm just curious, what are some of the things that are going on in your neck of the woods at 30 plus years?
Speaker 2 (00:34:26) - You'll be surprised because see, here's the thing. Here's what here's what we tell couples. It's like when Tara first married me. I'm a different person now. Yeah. 30 years ago, I was a different person than I am now, 31, 31 years. And so she's a different person. So a lot of the same things that we're still learning about each other because we're changing. We're evolving. But what what's the consistent thing about it is the fact that we're committed.
Speaker 2 (00:34:54) - So there's a deeper level of like, you know, we say that marriage is a sacred place for you to to work on things. You see your your bride, your spouse needs to have that mentality like, I'm here, I'm not going anywhere. You're free. You're you're open. You can you can struggle. And I'm not going anywhere. You can you can you can be real with me because it's a safe place. If I get this, if a couple can't get to the point where they are now able to share their hurts, their wounds, what's happened in the past in the marriage? It's the original small group. It's the very first small group. If we can't do it with each other, it's going to be extremely hard to do it with other people. Now, I'm not saying you have to share all of your dirty laundry because there are some things that Tara will never understand. There are some things with guys that I share that I don't share with her because she may not understand the visual context of how we are wired and and because they're not wired that way.
Speaker 2 (00:36:09) - Yeah. For me to click a link, it's like, Oh my gosh, look at that, Look at that. It's like, Oh my gosh, what am I doing? She's not. They're not. Women are not wired that way. Yeah, that struggle. So those are the types of things I'll go to, guys. But when it comes to the struggle within to say, Hey, look, this is what I need help on, she will pray for me. She will understand me, she will support me, and she'll be my number one fan because. That issue of leaving is off the table. That issue of of of you having to be perfect. Chris is off the table, her having to be perfect. There's a lot more grace. So what we talk about are really the same things but in a different context because we're always growing. If we're, unless, unless, of course, you don't want to grow, well then, you know, like we had a couple come to us and said this actual words, Look, he's been married three times.
Speaker 2 (00:37:09) - He goes, I was married twice. I was correct twice as what he said, I'm correct twice. But now I'm married, which was what he's saying is, I can be correct.
Speaker 1 (00:37:19) - Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:37:20) - But now I'm married. It's like, Oh, yeah, that was correct. So sometimes there's a give and take because we're all we're growing, we're learning. And so because of that, there's there's a there's a lot more grace and safety in our conversations now. But it's typically this the same things how do we have healthy conversations? What are we doing for our future? How are we going to set ourselves up financially? How are we going to, you know, what are we going to do in these last 20, 30 years? You know, because I'm 60 now, it's like I don't know how many summers I'll have.
Speaker 1 (00:37:55) - Oh, you still got plenty of years left, man. But I know what you mean. Obviously, it's a different perspective. I. Oh, I had I had a question there.
Speaker 1 (00:38:04) - I had a follow up and I'm losing it now. Oh, you know what? I remember now. So I was listening to Connor Beaton. He has an organization called Man Talks and a podcast, and he was interviewing Dr. Robert Glover No More Mr. Nice Guy, author, and he's been on the podcast before, and Connor is going to be on the podcast very soon, which is really exciting. They were having a great conversation about the importance of men having same sex friends. So you were just commenting on the importance of really honoring the sanctity of marriage, investing into that connection, prioritizing it. And obviously we've talked about a bunch of tools and frameworks to to do that successfully. What have you observed in your clients as far as is there any correlation between when a guy has other friends, other male friends that he's doing life with and able to bounce questions off of regarding marriage and talk about is there any correlation with the success in the marriage? Because I know for me when I I've had seasons so far in these four years, seasons where I've been more isolated and kind of a lone wolf and kind of figuring it out on my own and kind of being a little bit proud and not reaching out for help and also being a little bit consumed by business, if I'm being honest.
Speaker 1 (00:39:17) - And then I've had other seasons where it's like, man, I'm really integrated with my community and I'm asking questions and I'm getting great input from people like yourself. And I feel like I show up better in the marriage when that's the case. Is there any correlation there? And I don't know if you have do you have any commentary on that dynamic yourself? Because I feel like it's it's an issue right now.
Speaker 2 (00:39:36) - Yeah. You know, yes, there is a very, very direct correlation because if we can't be real in our marriage space, it's going to be hard to be real in other spaces. And so so, yes, both are hand in hand. I need to have and I do have male friends who I tell the world to, but also have my marriage. And so there's definitely a correction. There's definitely a correlation. Here's what I liken it to men who don't have success, and I've been told this. Chris Relationships are a chick thing.
Speaker 3 (00:40:15) - I said.
Speaker 2 (00:40:15) - Bro. Relationships are a human thing.
Speaker 3 (00:40:19) - Right?
Speaker 2 (00:40:20) - Human thing. And so what that means is it give and it's not a give and take itself. It's an understanding that I need. I need relationships. I need to have real, authentic relationships with both my wife and with other men, because it's going to it's going to it's going to correlate. Because if I'm not real with one or the other, you have to be real with both.
Speaker 3 (00:40:44) - Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:40:45) - In order to have success. And because relationships are a human thing, not a chick thing. That's that's where guys are hunting and grunting. I call it hunting and grunting because they don't really want to share. And let me just be real. It's harder for us guys, even for an I. It's harder for us guys to be able to express. Why we do what we do.
Speaker 3 (00:41:11) - Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:41:12) - And see. And that's what our women wants. Our women want us to be able to. To be real. Why do you are why are you angry? Why are you looking at porn? Why are you you know, and seeing this were the amount of is is really one of the key things to be able to put a magnifying glass to understand why we do what we do if we ignore it.
Speaker 2 (00:41:38) - It's going to be a detriment of whatever relationships we have. But if we embrace it. And realize it. Just look, I'm in my journey. Yeah, I'm almost 60, but I'm still growing. I'm still learning.
Speaker 3 (00:41:52) - Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:41:53) - Understanding time and understanding myself. And we will never stop because we're always changing. And so there is a direct correlation for sure.
Speaker 3 (00:42:02) - Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:42:03) - So my last question for you is something I've been asking all of the fathers that I've had the privilege of interviewing the last little bit because as you know, Shlomo and I are expecting our first in October and that's really. Thanks, man. Yeah. And that's really not that far away. Any tips or pieces of advice for someone like myself? And I know we have some listeners as well who are becoming first time fathers, recently became first time fathers or, you know, anything just in general as well for fatherhood. I'm all ears, man. Give me give me your best stuff. I'm taking notes here.
Speaker 3 (00:42:36) - Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:42:37) - Realizing that they have God has uniquely wired them. And it's our role as the leader, as the parent, to understand them and to talk to them in a manner that's worthy of their calling, of how God has wired them.
Speaker 3 (00:42:54) - Wow.
Speaker 2 (00:42:55) - It's not fair to them. For example, you know, all three of my children are wired exactly opposite. And so we have to adjust the way we talk to Brady, talk to Amanda, talk to Drew, because they're wired so totally different. If you want to motivate them and don't have conflict and don't want to have like going off the rails and why are they doing this? It all starts. They may do that, but it's it's not going to be because of me, because I have dedicated my life to understand them. When you can understand them and adjust and adapt. I'm telling you, the key is adapting. The key is adapting and understanding and loving them well enough, or knowing them or allowing yourself to know them well enough to be able to adapt.
Speaker 3 (00:43:44) - Man.
Speaker 2 (00:43:45) - And reduce the selfishness that you're going to. I'm the father. Let me just give you a real quick story, if I can.
Speaker 3 (00:43:53) - Please.
Speaker 2 (00:43:53) - The reason why we're so our mentor, Dr. Rome. He got into this 35 years ago because he couldn't get along with his daughter. Rachel. And every night he was like having having a fight with her at bedtime. It's like, what's going on here? Why are we? And so when he understood that he could get a different result based on the words that he spoke to her, and this is true with marriages. This is true with children.
Speaker 3 (00:44:21) - Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:44:22) - So he's she's a high D and so he had to embrace like like, look, Tiger, that's what he calls her. You're the boss. You're you can decide whatever you want here, but the limit is 10:00. But you can go to bed at 830. You can go to bed at 930. You can go to bed whenever you want. The limit is ten, but you're in charge.
Speaker 2 (00:44:40) - You're the boss. And when he did that. It made all the difference in the world.
Speaker 3 (00:44:45) - Okay.
Speaker 2 (00:44:47) - The example here is, is when we adjust our communication. We can connect.
Speaker 3 (00:44:53) - With a.
Speaker 1 (00:44:54) - Man that's so good. That's. I legitimately took notes while you were talking. That was really helpful. Okay. Let me ask a follow up then, because you're the marriage guy, so I'd be remiss if I didn't ask this. How do you protect the marriage while you raise kids? Because the the one thing this has been honestly the most groundbreaking thing for me during this pregnancy probably happened around month for or month five is I was starting to have these concerns about like, oh man, shalom and I have a good marriage. Things are solid right now. Is this kid going to change everything? Am I going to be ready to have a kid? How am I going to raise this kid? I don't know what I'm doing, you know, like just going through like, the insecurities and the concerns and stuff that come up.
Speaker 1 (00:45:34) - And I also I like my my gut response was, man, I need to read more parenting books and listen to more parenting podcast. And I heard the Holy Spirit stopped me and say, Sathya, the way that the best thing you can do right now to prepare for fatherhood is so into your marriage because you can't actually control what your kid is like. You can't control the way his temperament, his persona, like like you were just saying, like, those are things that God is is wiring in him right now and they're beyond my control. But the one thing you can control is how you show up in the marriage. And everything in this family needs to come from a strong, healthy, secure marriage. So it's really giving me perspective. But I would say I'm I've said yes and amen. I've said, yes, Lord, I receive that in my heart, but I'm still learning how to carry that out practically. And obviously nothing's even changed yet. You know, the kids not even born, but do you have any tips on that front on how to really protect the marriage going into this major life transition?
Speaker 2 (00:46:31) - Yeah, realizing it's going to be the man's responsibility to understand this concept and this is so good is because we, we learned many years ago that and we used to teaching a at our church this this concept that children are a welcome addition.
Speaker 2 (00:46:52) - When you can realize that that they're not the king, they're not the queen. They're a welcome addition. They're going to get get this they're going to get all their strength, all of their security from the security that mom and dad have. This is why we start with marriages. And every 100% of our coaching clients goes to. I'm going to work on this. Will you help my children? Will you help me connect with my children? Every one of them?
Speaker 3 (00:47:24) - Yes.
Speaker 2 (00:47:25) - It starts with the marriage.
Speaker 3 (00:47:27) - It's the.
Speaker 2 (00:47:28) - Small group. And so it's like you said. How do you focus on it? By realizing that children are a welcome addition. And it's our role as men to not get caught up because it's going to be it's going to be hard for Shalamar and for other for women to say, okay, now they're the caretakers. This is I got to take care of this child. They don't understand that. But it's for men to understand that. But yet men to do to have those intimate conversations they had talked about.
Speaker 2 (00:47:59) - One is not conflict ridden and one that's not that is more palatable to their liking, to a healthy environment, to have a conversation about this fact that they need that the children are a welcome addition. And this year they're going to get all their strength, all their security from the from the relationship between mom and dad. So ultimately, you're going to help them more by focusing on this marriage and realizing they're a welcome addition.
Speaker 3 (00:48:33) - Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:48:35) - Wow. Wow, man. Oh, so much good wisdom. Thank you. Thanks for thanks for giving us some time today. If people want to find out more about you, Chris, they want to connect with what you guys are up to. What's the best way for them to do that?
Speaker 2 (00:48:47) - Well, we have a website called Marriage Insights Institute where it's like we've talked about Sathiya. We're taking we had a B2C, which is consumer marriage revelation, and now we're switching it because different reasons we've switched it to Marriage Insights Institute because we want to take this curriculum which allows couples to be able to to understand each other.
Speaker 2 (00:49:12) - We're taking the churches. And so you can connect with me by looking at the website. And I'm a Chris at Marriage Insights Institute. So those two things will help be able to guide and direct and to be able to help couples understand how to connect with us and how to improve their marriage and how to how to connect at a way they've never connected before.
Speaker 1 (00:49:36) - Come on. That's awesome, man. Okay, we'll put those links in the show notes. In the meantime, please say hi to Tara for me. And dude, thanks for your time today on the podcast. This was awesome. Well, thanks.
Speaker 2 (00:49:46) - For having us, Sathya, and may God bless you, my friend, because you are you are in the trenches and you are you're making a difference in this world and that's what we want.
Speaker 3 (00:49:57) - Thanks, man.
